EV use can be more expensive than gas

[mung]

With recent hikes in electricity rates by PG&E it has become very expensive to charge your car at home in California, even during off peak hours. I get around 40 cents per kwH when charging at off peak rates. That is just crazy expensive now.

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[cjbot3000]

Everyone's comparing new cars under warranty, etc, but missing real world use - like a normal person who drives a car past their warranty period (who buys a new car every time the warranty is up!?). This opens up all sorts of maintenance and age-related cost.

Just throwing out our math based on our previous vehicle based on the current mileage of 22,700 on our R1T

2013 Touareg VR6
- 19mpg
- $4/gal
- total fuel cost = ~4,700-4,800 (ballpark, variations in fuel price, etc)
- oil change every 5k @$150 for euro synthetic oil/filter = $600 (self performed, no dealership likely more. BMW oil changes for my wife's 2011 3 series was $300 every time)

- TOTAL = let's call it $5,300 in fuel/oil consumption

NOTE: maintenance is undetermined so this won't be included in the total, but I did need another $1,500 to fix the ebrake that I didn't do, the headlight needed a replacement which requires taking off the front bumper so... who knows. $1k? German, fancy bulbs, annoying to work on? Transmission is "sealed for life," having 150k on the clock it was starting to shift a little funny if you're REALLY paying attention, so throw in one of those, too. Direct injection also means an intake disassembly to clean out the carbon that builds up from recirculated exhaust. Not to mention the oil burning habit all german cars develop that would only get worse. throw on another $20 per oil change. and don't forget that water pumps have a finite shelf life somewhere short of 200k and I don't even want to imagine what that would cost on a touareg. OH and the battery - special battery replacement that requires removing the driver's seat from the vehicle. Still had the original battery so throw in god knows how much to have that done. Yes, R1 needs batteries, too, but not a gargantuan one that takes several hours of labor to swap out. Add on all the VW electrical gremlins that start showing up at 100k. #Touareg problems

2022 R1T 21"
- 1.9-5 cents/kW to charge at home = ~$1100 (I'm going to assume worst case at 5 cents... our bill is really convoluted with taxes, fees charges, etc and I'm not equipped to do all the crazy math to figure out the actual cost.)
- Public Charging = total $380 (I'm just going to add this on top of the total mileage because I'm not mathing to figure out how to subtract the kW from the total, so favor goes to ICE)

- TOTAL = ~$1500

so WORST case scenario, for us who charge at home on cheap electricity it's 25% of our ICE related cost. and realistically, the cost is lower.

IF you want to throw in tires (I had to buy them prematurely due to flats) another $1200, but it's worth noting that the Touareg ALSO used the same pirelli scorpion tires (non EV version) at a similar price with no other tire options and would ALSO need tires.

Post-warranty maintenance on the R1 is a worry, but there won't be ICE related costs, at least, and the warranty period is pretty dang good for the R1. So... suspension at some point?


I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people charge at home, but it's important to remember all the renters who can't install home chargers. My math is just under $6k if we did exclusively EA charging @2.3 mi/kWh

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

With recent hikes in electricity rates by PG&E it has become very expensive to charge your car at home in California, even during off peak hours. I get around 40 cents per kwH when charging at off peak rates. That is just crazy expensive now.

Yah that's unfortunate. Bad politics. Bad governance. And a captive audience. Not sure what on/off-peak SDG&E rate is here at the condo. But average cost from last month's bill came to be right at 40¢. Here in the OC, starting at 11 pm and with Supercharger membership it's 27¢. At EA it's 32¢ with Pass+. Blows that "shouldn't be driving a EV if you don't charge at home" trope right out of the water. I'll have to look in the app tonight to see if it's any different for each network in LA.

 

[fireroasted]

Home charging is fundamental and changing your electric plan accordingly. I have somehow added two EVs, changed my plan, cut my electric bill by 1/3 from pre EV ownership. It has been staggering, but I have some Solar, and now am going to get many more and a home battery. It has been shocking how my plan change modified everything. I never considered that, nor justified the R1S in that manner. I just let my wife pick whatever she wanted, and the requirement was its something I will not work on. (we had an X5 for 11 years before that, so I am now a BMW master mechanic, having spent most of my life on my back underneeth that thing.)

Then I watched one day my solar panels charge the R1S during the day barely exceeding their output. I was amazed at the notion that with panels I could have zero fuel costs. I bought another EV, i3, with a tiny battery.

I did once have to top off somewhere for the Rivian and it cost me like 20 dollars, and was only 30 miles or something rediculous. I didn't have an account, just paid with a swipe, and that was not cost effective. Then charged at RAN, and though not as cheap as at home that was more reasonable considering the convenience. I am hoping the Tesla adapter comes soon and the pricing is comparable to the RAN.

pushing a 9k pound SUV from sun alone is an addictive exercise once you get hooked.

FYI - my midnight - 6am is .22 cents. SDGE. but I charge more and more during the day because of solar.

 

[shap]

I may have a more fair comparison...
Previously I owned SRT Durango (6.4L v8) is a 3 row SUV, with about 500 hp, and 0 to 60 in 4 seconds. Besides the fact that Rivian is more capable and cost less to refuel...

I don't think you all realize what a pain it is to own a car with Brembo breaks, I think you take it for granted with EV's.
On SRT Durango OEM pads wear rotors as much that it all needs to be replaced together as a set after only 2 years! in 2021 it would have been $800 to do just the front at a dealer. Durango had 2-piece rotor however, otherwise very similar system

And don't even get me started on break pad dust, if you know you know.

Pic below of me doing breaks on said, Durango.

You can see edge of the rotor is not flush with the surface, meaning it had to be replaced.
(harbor freight jack stands lol)

So you see, when comparing to a high performance SUV, devil is in details.

Edit: I may have been wrong on the cost, I think $800 was only for parts, for one side...

You lucky it is $800. BMW X5 - you are going to pay 2K to change rotors and pads.... every 30-40k

 

[mung]

Home charging is fundamental and changing your electric plan accordingly. I have somehow added two EVs, changed my plan, cut my electric bill by 1/3 from pre EV ownership.

@fireroasted what do you mean by changed your plan? How much is your on and off peak rates? You're in CA right?

 

[shap]

That is exactly what I am talking about! You cannot financially justify ICE over EV

Well, you should if you want to get to the mass market.

 

[Hillbilly]

Not so in my case. My R1T was purchased as a supplement to my Silverado Duramax which is also a very heavy vehicle with poor tire life. Therefore, EV tire replacement cost is not a factor in my situation.

Brian

Same.

 

[Golfer04]

Well, you should if you want to get to the mass market.

I drive 3,000 miles a month (Central Illinois) and almost exclusively charge at home. My TOTAL power bill I just got is $393. We run A/C 24/7 due to allergies and have a gas water heater. If I had my F150 that got 20mpg I would use 150 gallons of gas @ 3.50 is $525. Oh....we also have BMW X5 plugin hybrid that charges daily too and is included in the $393. For my use case there is no comparison which is cheaper. We essentially have free year round transportation plus $100 credit towards our home use.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

@fireroasted what do you mean by changed your plan? How much is your on and off peak rates? You're in CA right?

Looks to be OC, serviced by SDG&E, which has tiered and time-of-use plans. Ahead of each 12-month period, customers are given opportunity to maintain status-quo or enroll in different plans.

 

[mung]

Looks to be OC, serviced by SDG&E, which has tiered and time-of-use plans. Ahead of each 12-month period, customers are given opportunity to stay or enroll in different plans.

Oh right, I wasn't aware of SDG&E before. Curious what others in CA are getting in terms of electricity rate.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Oh right, I wasn't aware of SDG&E before. Curious what others in CA are getting in terms of electricity rate.

Coverage map of different utility companies in the state. Rates are usually published at respective sites. https://www.signnow.com/preview/100/474/100474259.png

 

[shap]

I drive 3,000 miles a month (Central Illinois) and almost exclusively charge at home. My TOTAL power bill I just got is $393. We run A/C 24/7 due to allergies and have a gas water heater. If I had my F150 that got 20mpg I would use 150 gallons of gas @ 3.50 is $525. Oh....we also have BMW X5 plugin hybrid that charges daily too and is included in the $393. For my use case there is no comparison which is cheaper. We essentially have free year round transportation plus $100 credit towards our home use.

Your use case is a great example of when it DOES make sense to have an EV !

BTW, X5 45E is freaking amazing car! Love it every moment, drives so good! I fill it with gas every 6 months

 

[WSea]

bLUeDOt

 

[IGR]

You lucky it is $800. BMW X5 - you are going to pay 2K to change rotors and pads.... every 30-40k

Yea its actually more, I remembers $800 per one rotor cuz I was gonna do it myself, at dealer, full install would have been also around $2000.

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