Most efficient 20" tire?

[LL75]

I know this has been asked a hundred times, but here goes: do we know which is "the most efficient 20" tire"? The more I read about this, the more confused I get.

I am not interested in cost -- just the tire that will produce the longest range. The Grabber and Recon Grappler seem great, but are they more efficient than the Defender LTX? Or the Pirelli Scorpion A/S?

I suppose it's impossible to know until someone does careful tests with each tire?

275/60/20 size NEED to be all season tires and not AT. Top 3 imo.

1. Pirelli scorpion as+3
2. general grabber and defender LTX m/2 are similar in my opinion.

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[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I know this has been asked a hundred times, but here goes: do we know which is "the most efficient 20" tire"? The more I read about this, the more confused I get.

Virtually impossible question. And I suspect you are asking this because there are just too many tire options to keep track of. That's one reason it's virtually impossible. The other reason is even if we were to crowdsource and get everyone to try different tires and report our results, the data would still be inconclusive because we all drive differently, on different roads, in different traffic conditions and at different elevations.

Only way to find out is for a lab or entity to test all tires with one R1T, in exact conditions and identical drive cycle on each tire.

 

[UhOh]

275/60/20 size NEED to be all season tires and not AT. Top 3 imo.

1. Pirelli scorpion as+3
2. general grabber and defender LTX m/2 are similar in my opinion.

Thanks very much. Can I ask why you rate Scorpion above the rest?

 

[UhOh]

There’s two 20” sizes:
34” (2022+ OEM) - 275/65R20
33” (2024+ OEM) - 275/60R20
Some 33” options match or even beat the 21” OEM efficiency (likely why it was discontinued)

33” is most efficient, any tire ~41-42 pounds or less should be high efficiency.

34” - So far I don’t believe there are any 34” diameter tires that match or beat OEM efficiency (there is pretty limited testing data).

Very helpful, thx. I should have clarified that I meant the 33" size. But how to decide between the Defender LTX and the new Goodyear Wrangler (for gen 2) and Recon Grappler and Scorpion AS?

 

[LL75]

Thanks very much. Can I ask why you rate Scorpion above the rest?

Mostly from the members here reported. Also, I think it has better rolling resistant than the other two. Only thing about the scorpion AS+3 is it has load rating of 115 (which still plenty for Rivian) compared to the other two at load 116.
Personally, I am just not a fan of Pirelli tires , that 's why I got the general grabbers.

 

[R1Sky Business]

Mostly from the members here reported. Also, I think it has better rolling resistant than the other two. Only thing about the scorpion AS+3 is it has load rating of 115 (which still plenty for Rivian) compared to the other two at load 116.
Personally, I am just not a fan of Pirelli tires , that 's why I got the general grabbers.

How's the efficiency?

 

[Supratachophobia]

Virtually impossible question. And I suspect you are asking this because there are just too many tire options to keep track of. That's one reason it's virtually impossible. The other reason is even if we were to crowdsource and get everyone to try different tires and report our results, the data would still be inconclusive because we all drive differently, on different roads, in different traffic conditions and at different elevations.

Only way to find out is for a lab or entity to test all tires with one R1T, in exact conditions and identical drive cycle on each tire.

I still disagree. I think there's a place for a single 70-75mph test, on a flat stretch, in a constant temp, with dry roads. And then apply a very rough modifier for wind, temp, and speed.

For example: ideal test above gets you 2.4mpk. we can easily show an exponential decrease % for every 5mph above and an experiential increase % for every 5mph down. Same goes for temp, but perhaps in larger ranges, most likely; below freezing (under 35), moderate (35-55), ideal (55-80), and extreme (80+).

A good real world example is that when I have my crossbars on my Tesla, boom, 2% reduction over a full charge. Or 21" vs 19", ~14% reduction in range.

We have the data, just need to massage it a bit, and save the outliers to verify the adjustment.

 

[Riviot]

I know this has been asked a hundred times, but here goes: do we know which is "the most efficient 20" tire"? The more I read about this, the more confused I get.

I am not interested in cost -- just the tire that will produce the longest range. The Grabber and Recon Grappler seem great, but are they more efficient than the Defender LTX? Or the Pirelli Scorpion A/S?

I suppose it's impossible to know until someone does careful tests with each tire?

General Grabber and Michelin Defender LTX MS2 are your best bet.

Only way to find out is for a lab or entity to test all tires with one R1T, in exact conditions and identical drive cycle on each tire.

??‍ I'll do it, bring me your OEM 20" staple wheels with each tire > 1k miles on them.

Mostly from the members here reported. Also, I think it has better rolling resistant than the other two. Only thing about the scorpion AS+3 is it has load rating of 115 (which still plenty for Rivian) compared to the other two at load 116.
Personally, I am just not a fan of Pirelli tires , that 's why I got the general grabbers.

I'm running AS+3 and would've gone Michelin Defender LTX MS2 if it were available spring 2023. Alas, I'll have to wait 30k until I wear these off.

How's the efficiency?

2.44 MPK (including 3% correction) last summer on OEM 20" staples. 2.32 MPK most recently, including a road trip with RTT then towing a utility trailer 200 miles.

 

[Riviot]

We have the data, just need to massage it a bit, and save the outliers to verify the adjustment.

Do you have battery temp? Motor temp? Climate settings? PSI? Barometric reading? Etc etc etc.

It must be the same vehicle in as similar as possible conditions. Ideally the same day, in a loop, spring time cool temps. Not this absurd fluctuation in summer.

 

[LL75]

How's the efficiency?

I get about 2.3 all purpose. Although the general grabber is the lightest in weight of all, it is super sticky for the first 500 to 1000 miles. I got around 2.0 for that. This is why I think the as+3 would have better efficiency.

According to teslafi data
May. 2.56
June. 2.29
July so far 2.23

I'm sure it has to do with running the hvac more during these hot months of June and july

 

[Supratachophobia]

Do you have battery temp? Motor temp? Climate settings? PSI? Barometric reading? Etc etc etc.

It must be the same vehicle in as similar as possible conditions. Ideally the same day, in a loop, spring time cool temps. Not this absurd fluctuation in summer.

Some variables naturally need to be thrown out because their effect exists but not on a large enough scale to be accounting for. We did it with MPG, we can do it with MPK.....

 

[Riviot]

Some variables naturally need to be thrown out because their effect exists but not on a have enough scale to be accounting for. We did it with MPG, we can do it with MPK.....

Okay which ones?

 

[Supratachophobia]

Okay which ones?

Your party pooper attitude for one.

 

[Riviot]

Your party pooper attitude for one.

I'm happy to flush extraneous data, just help me fish out the good stuff!

 

[Franksmartin]

I still disagree. I think there's a place for a single 70-75mph test, on a flat stretch, in a constant temp, with dry roads. And then apply a very rough modifier for wind, temp, and speed.

For example: ideal test above gets you 2.4mpk. we can easily show an exponential decrease % for every 5mph above and an experiential increase % for every 5mph down. Same goes for temp, but perhaps in larger ranges, most likely; below freezing (under 35), moderate (35-55), ideal (55-80), and extreme (80+).

A good real world example is that when I have my crossbars on my Tesla, boom, 2% reduction over a full charge. Or 21" vs 19", ~14% reduction in range.

We have the data, just need to massage it a bit, and save the outliers to verify the adjustment.

All you really need to do is get 2 identical Rivians with different tires and go do an efficiency test together on the same exact route at the same time. I’m not sure why Out of Spec hasn’t done it already.

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