Unethical charging question?

[Treebeard]

If I am leasing a car, what is my responsibility to maintain the battery health and only charge to 70-80%? I feel like I would be ruining the long term value of the car/battery for short term reward but is that on me knowing I'll give it back in 3 years?

I kind of equate this to an iPhone battery that drops battery life and then I turn it in every year.

Does the lease have a penalty for battery abuse? Just use the vehicle. Don’t over think it.

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[Electrified Outdoors]

I don't think lfp can handle 0-100 much better than NMC but it requires 100% occasionally to recalibrate because of the flat voltage curve. Either way they are both engineered for a pretty long life charging to 100

My understanding is that LFP does have increased cycling capability over NMC chemistry. LFP does of course have limitations on energy density and cold weather performance.

The BMS can tell the SOC based on voltage....but....with LFP the voltage stays pretty flat so its much harder for the BMS to get an accurate SOC without a periodic 100% charge.

With all that said LFP doesn't like to sit around at 100% anymore than NMC does and it will shorten the life of the battery (probably less than NMC due to increased cycling capability of LFP).

Once every two weeks or once a month 100% charge on LFP is good to maintain SOC accuracy in the BMS.

To the OPs question I would still use the recommended charging limits. While the battery does have a long warranty and would be replaced if it failed or degrades beyond a certain point I would still want to take care of the vehicle even though its leased. If things change and one decides to buy out the lease it would certainly be a benefit to have cared for it. This would be especially important if the market value of the truck is more than the lease residual. In that case you would want to buy out the lease and either keep or resell the truck.

Finally, there is no rule against charging to 100% every day even if you own the vehicle. If you look at Rivian's own wording they describe 100% charging limits as (normal battery wear), Extended as reduced, and then the 70% as least. Do what is most convenient...if 70% or 85% charging daily is not inconvenient that's what I would do regardless.

 

[All Rived Up]

I have a Home Charger and when my car gets to 20% or less, I charge it to 100%. This happens approximately once a week. I am not doing anything to the car that would be considered "ruining" the long term value for the next Owner.

 

[JRock]

If I am leasing a car, what is my responsibility to maintain the battery health and only charge to 70-80%? I feel like I would be ruining the long term value of the car/battery for short term reward but is that on me knowing I'll give it back in 3 years?

I kind of equate this to an iPhone battery that drops battery life and then I turn it in every year.

Not to sound too preachy, but you should treat your leased car like it’s your own property. Treating stuff and other people with respect isn’t hard; it’s just the right thing to do. Besides, if you treat it like it’s yours, or belongs to a friend who’s loaned it to you, you never have to ask yourself a question like that.
Now, cue the haters….

 

[SwampNut]

If I am leasing a car, what is my responsibility to maintain the battery health and only charge to 70-80%?

None at all. And it is unlikely to do much to the battery. Before the Rivian I had a Tesla which had been Supercharged a lot and full charged a lot. It had affected total range by a small amount. Did I give a damn when buying it? Not really. Did it matter when I sold it? Absolutely not.

 

[moondogg]

If it was truly an issue for Rivian, they could build a fee into the return costs (like lease end fees, charges for wheel curb scuff, etc.) for charging history. But they don’t. My view is charge it as you like—it’s essentially built into the cost of the lease. I wouldn’t abuse it purposely, but would charge it as I needed to.

Nah, don't "charge it as you like". Charge it as if you own it. Be a decent person.

 

[AlanP]

I think it’s all hypothetical. I had a RAV4 EV where the first battery failed after a couple of years and the next battery was still fine after seven years while charging to 100% every day which I had to because of the range. I have a zero motorcycle EV where the battery completely failed after 4000 miles when it was supposed to last over 100,000 according to the manufacturer literature. I have a two-year old iPhone where the battery failed and a three year old iPhone where the battery is just fine . Let someone worry about it eight years from now.

 

[thrill]

I wouldn't be surprised if leased EVs begin levying a State of Health surcharge if battery capacity is determined to be less than a forecast value, which should be determinable via a "smart" Battery Management System.

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

I've never once charged to 100%. I don't understand how the hell you're all driving where you need to charge to 100%. You're just wasting your own time doing it more than anything.

 

[All Rived Up]

I've never once charged to 100%. I don't understand how the hell you're all driving where you need to charge to 100%. You're just wasting your own time doing it more than anything.

DC Fast Charging vs Home Charging are two completely different scenarios. I NEVER charge to 100% at a DCFC but I ALWAYS charge to 100% when charging at home. There is no "Waste of Time" when you're charging at Home while you sleep.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

I've never once charged to 100%. I don't understand how the hell you're all driving where you need to charge to 100%. You're just wasting your own time doing it more than anything.

Road trips are when I charge to 100% - first leg always (overnight before leaving), taking a longer break at a fast charger (i.e. to sit down and eat), sometimes necessary when towing.

Charging to 100% is not a sin. It just doesn't make sense to do when you don't need to. That's the way I'd treat it whether I owned it or leased it. Also my normal charge at home is 85-90% since I live in an apt and have to temporarily park in another space to charge it. I'm not going to let the car run my life for minimal benefit. I see the same argument for folks that don't have charging at home. I think calling charging to 100% willful damage is a little much, especially as others have pointed out, is not a warranty exclusion.

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

DC Fast Charging vs Home Charging are two completely different scenarios. I NEVER charge to 100% at a DCFC but I ALWAYS charge to 100% when charging at home. There is no "Waste of Time" when you're charging at Home while you sleep.

And you're using 100% of that battery every day? Even if you've leased the vehicle, why deteriorate the battery if you don't have to?

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

Road trips are when I charge to 100% - first leg always (overnight before leaving), taking a longer break at a fast charger (i.e. to sit down and eat), sometimes necessary when towing.

If you absolutely need every last percent for towing long distance, sure. Go for it! But for a normal roadtrip it doesn't make sense to overcharge. Your goal should be to hit every DCFC at 20% or below, otherwise you're gonna waste a lot more time than you need to.

 

[All Rived Up]

And you're using 100% of that battery every day? Even if you've leased the vehicle, why deteriorate the battery if you don't have to?

You obviously didn't read my first post. I charge AT HOME (Level 2) about once a week when my SOC gets below 20%. If you believe that this is adversely "deteriorating" the battery, then you are mis-informed. If I was doing this at a DCFC (Level 3) which I am not, then your assumption would be more correct.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

If you absolutely need every last percent for towing long distance, sure. Go for it! But for a normal roadtrip it doesn't make sense to overcharge. Your goal should be to hit every DCFC at 20% or below, otherwise you're gonna waste a lot more time than you need to.

Agreed - never said anything about charging to 100% at fast chargers unless you're taking a longer stop for other reasons. Then it doesn't make sense not to.

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