Snow Mode--still too much regenerative braking

[DucRider]

In Snowy/Icy conditions. EVs with blended braking systems have a huge advantage.
With One Pedal set to off, using regen thru the brake pedal is much easier to control (and antilock behaves in a predictable fashion). When a little snowy, I'll set throttle regen to low. When seriously slippery, it goes to off (Polestar allows this).

It's very hard to override the instinct to lift off the throttle during a slide.

It's not unusual for Tesla and Rivian owners to assume regen is only available through the right pedal on all EVs. Kind of expected if that is their only experience.

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[CrazyOne]

I’ve been harping on this from day one. My biggest, and really only complaint with my Rivian is the mandatory regen. I knew it was gonna be the case when I got the vehicle, but I’m still holding out hope they change course or at least add a “creep” mode so it behaves more like an ICE automatic transmission at extremely low speeds.

I know brake pedal Regen has its issues, but I think I would prefer that. Especially at slow speeds. Not to mention there is atleast a second of delay between the time we let go of the pedal and peak braking.

 

[Jacopa]

Just let your foot off the power, if/when it slides antilock brakes kick in and give you full control again, it takes about 1/2 second

 

[COdogman]

It definitely takes practice switching from regular braking to regen braking in general, and even more so when the bad weather comes. I just try to think of it as the same technique used when I had manual vehicles.

Rivian should allow regen to be turned off for those who would prefer it, though…

 

[ThirteenElectrics]

Regen still needs a proper antilock implementation, like all brakes have had for ages. This is a huge safety miss by Rivian.

 

[HyperionMark]

I don't think this is accurate guys. Whenever I've "braked" hard by lifting off the accelerator in slippery conditions I've always had ABS. I think it would be illegal to not have it.

 

[Bullwinkle]

@Bullwinkle
I’m a huge believer in two sets of wheels……
one with summer rubber
and the second with winter rubber

Naturally, a smaller wheel diameter like 20” for winter wheels
and light-weight forged wheels for summer (21” or 22” Atomic)

P.S.I highly recommend these winter boots for Rivian BEV

https://www.hankooktire.com/ca/en/tire/ion/icept-suv.html

https://na.nokiantyres.com/snow-winter-tires/nokian-tyres-hakkapeliitta-r5-suv/

I too believe in winter tires, especially living in Minnesota and Steamboat...but ice is ice and antilock brakes are one of the most important automotive inventions...this does need to be addressed and I am sure it has caused and will cause accidents.

 

[Bullwinkle]

I was in downtown Minneapolis that night. When I drove home there was a 12 car pile up on 394, right out side of downtown. Then after that there was another 2 car crash. And on 100 south there was a car off the road. It was ice.

I was in a Highlander.

regen braking would be an issue on ice. As in any quick breaking. In my own neighborhood I slide right through a stop sign. The nice part is Highlanders just slide straight, it does not go sideways or spin.

Rough conditions, but I agree it would be nice to turn off regen braking.

I am guessing we live close. If you see a silver R1s be sure and wave ;-)

 

[Bullwinkle]

My bad! I just read the first part. I agree it can be a problem in an emergency situation. The weight of the vehicle certainly doesn't help!

No worries, I love my R1S and have grown up with winter driving. It was fresh on my mind and this seemed like a good place to share a relatively minor gripe.

BTW, I have never had a car with absolutely no problems or recalls in the first 18 months. I've been to the service center twice, once to get a spare tire and once to rotate my tires. My biggest gripe is that my friends can never find the rear hatch close button. It should be yellow!

 

[Bullwinkle]

Just let your foot off the power, if/when it slides antilock brakes kick in and give you full control again, it takes about 1/2 second

I'd like this to be true, but it does not jive with my experience a few days ago. I did not feel or hear the antilock brakes. Do you know this is true?

 

[Jacopa]

I'd like this to be true, but it does not jive with my experience a few days ago. I did not feel or hear the antilock brakes. Do you know this is true?

Yes

 

[beatle]

If the truck isn't using the friction brakes to slow down, there is no ABS in the traditional sense. It would all be up to the motors to modulate regen so as not to lock up the wheels. This can still be effective but it might feel different since there is no solenoid to pulse the application of the brakes.

If you have regenerative braking assist turned on, it be in effect since the battery will likely be cold when it's snowy, and then traditional ABS will be a factor. I'm not sure at what battery temperature this comes into play, but I think it's actually pretty high. On my Model S the battery needed to be over 67F to get full regen.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

This is a great point.

Just as we wouldn't do hard braking in slippery conditions we have to be careful with regen as well. As you discovered feathering the go pedal provides more stability and control and is ultimately the answer.

When I first came into the world of EVs I had to completely change my routine for how I handle slippery conditions. It was very stressful....think Chevy Bolt EV ...that thing had strong regen.

 

[HaveBlue]

It would have to be the stability control program

 

[Bullwinkle]

It would have to be the stability control program

Yes. With regenerative braking, the antilock system controlling the disc brakes can't be in play. The work around is to feather the accelerator pedal, which minimizes braking. My sense is that the regenerative braking system does not provide antilock pulsing. It did not feel like it did when it induced a slide on ice a few days ago. This means one of the vehicle's most important winter driving features (antilock braking) can't be used when it is needed most.

If the above is correct, I do believe a safety upgrade is a good idea. Feathering the pedal is pretty delicate when sliding and in an emergency, and your foot should usually be hovering over the brake. I am the primary driver of the R1S in our family and I am also the person with the most winter driving experience. I am not sure others in my family would do well in slippery conditions...I am not even positive I can do it perfectly...and in any case antilock brake pulsing is likely not available at critical times.

The best feature upgrade Rivian can add (in my opinion) is an ice mode that greatly reduce regenerative braking or turns it off. Or add a reduced regenerative level (or off position) to Snow mode. Or somehow add antilock pulsing to the regenerative braking system.

Am I missing something or do others agree?

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