Special RAN pricing for Rivians

[bigsky]

Say you don't understand utility demand charges without saying it.

I just know a scam when I see one. Need not have a Ph.D. in electricity economics to figure that out. Plus, I do not play that game. Worked too hard to get where I am at to have or let anybody scam my money away.

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[SRO]

EV over-the-road DC economy just doesn’t work out … specially when gas is below $3/gallon in most places. Home charging is the game changer.

Home charging with solar is the game changer. At 1.5 cents per mile in the summer.

 

[SRO]

Whoa!
It sounds as if there is an awful lot of fingers in the state electricity pie.
In my neck of the woods, electricity is just over $0.07/kWh flat rate, no TOU, up 10% in one year; DFCs in this area are at the same $0.50+ prices, reason why I call them what I call them.

In my previous home, I had a relatively small 7.9 kW solar array, yet big enough to charge my EVs, power up my house and largely wipe out my utility bills; electricity was $0.13 there.

I still cannot justify a solar array where I live, will likely have one installed once kWh prices star to break $0.10.

Did you take into consideration the cost savings due to money not spent on gasoline when costing your solar installation?

 

[bigsky]

Cheapest gas in Pismo Beach today is 4.49, some stations over 5.00.

At 2.2 m/kWh at 56 cents per it is $25.45 to go 100 miles

At 4.49 getting 17 mpg it is $26.41 to go 100 miles

I guess it depends on what you are driving and what your effeciency is.

My 2004 4Runner, 19 MPG with a tailwind, similar to R1S, $23.63. It looks as if $0.52 is par with ICE. Anything higher, EVs start to become more expensive to drive.

 

[TomServo2112]

I sure wouldn't say most places. I like to deal with facts. I do agree that long distance driving with an EV isn't cheaper. But as we all know that usually isn't the common case use for driver's in America. The statistic is between 80%-85% can charge at home.

Then states where EV drivers are charging at home and Electricity is more expensive per kWh is commonly in an area where gas is more expensive and vise versa.

Lets not even get into how gas and oil prices are indirectly subsidized by the government.

Add into the mix that you'll never have to have a $50 to $200+ oil change in an EV, never have any transmission maintenance, timing chains, spark plug replacement, and may rarely have to replace brake pads or resurface rotors as well.

The cherry-pickers, when mentioning gas being "under $3 per gallon" are taking an average, while we're usually discussing specific DCFCs near road trip corridors. in the context of driving road trips, a decidedly uncommon daily activity for most. So what are the gas prices immediately adjacent to those costly DCFCs? Probably pricier than the gas stations a few miles off the highway. Last I checked the Vegas RAN was $0.64/kWh, and the two nearest gas stations are $4.59 and $4.69 for Premium. $4.29 and $4.39 for Mid-grade. [I'm guessing not many buying a six-figure SUV or truck are considering an 87 octane vehicle, but 87 is where those two gas stations finally approach or break the $4 mark.] Drive out close enough to Summerlin or Henderson and you can find premium just under $4. If the cherry-pickers are going to pick the cheapest gas price they can find (perhaps not even one they actually see in their area), then us EV proponents can take the cheapest electricity rate we use - our home rate ($0.26/kWh for me in SoCal on an EV TOU plan), while also calling out that day to day EV driving is usually more efficient than road tripping, while that's not the case so much for most gassers.

Just about any ICE SUV or truck similarly sized to a Rivian at 20k miles per year can regularly pay 2x or 3x the monthly cost to regularly charge an EV. And on a road trip can come close to what I pay most months in just one or 2 fill-ups....and *still* have to pay for oil changes. Do it yourselfer? Great.. you're still paying for parts and aren't being paid for your time.

The average cost per mile for a similarly sized gasser over its lifetime, including routine maintenance & upkeep, will always be at the top end of what the least efficient EVs are for *just road trips*. That makes it EV all day for me.

 

[zefram47]

My 2004 4Runner, 19 MPG with a tailwind, similar to R1S, $23.63. It looks as if $0.52 is par with ICE. Anything higher, EVs start to become more expensive to drive.

And probably 95% of the time you're charging at home with dramatically lower rates. It doesn't need to compare with ICE when averaged over the year.

 

[bigsky]

Did you take into consideration the cost savings due to money not spent on gasoline when costing your solar installation?

Actually, no. Had my array installed in 2015. My first EV was my Model S in 2020. Based the solar cost solely on the price of electricity. With the 30% tax credit and exemption from property taxes, it would have paid for itself in 10 years, well on the way there when I moved.
Had my two Teslas and learned to derate the charging rate on my Teslas to around 18 A to charge them fully from my array only not grid.

 

[bigsky]

And probably 95% of the time you're charging at home with dramatically lower rates. It doesn't need to compare with ICE when averaged over the year.

Oh, you are absolutely right. What makes an EV more expensive to long trip in is the price of fast chargers. It sucks if someone cannot charge at home.
Charging at home, hell, it costs me less than $10 to fully charge my R1S, good for 308 miles, $80+ to gas up my 4Runner, good for 380. Reason why I rarely drive the latter, except during the harsh winter sometimes while I store my R1S to spare it the winter punishment.

But even if I used fast chargers rarely does not negate the fact that they are absurdly expensive.

 

[SANZC02]

My 2004 4Runner, 19 MPG with a tailwind, similar to R1S, $23.63. It looks as if $0.52 is par with ICE. Anything higher, EVs start to become more expensive to drive.

I agree, most parts of the country it is easier to say ICE is cheaper for traveling, harder to make that case in CA though.

 

[SANZC02]

Whoa!
It sounds as if there is an awful lot of fingers in the state electricity pie.
In my neck of the woods, electricity is just over $0.07/kWh flat rate, no TOU, up 10% in one year; DFCs in this area are at the same $0.50+ prices, reason why I call them what I call them.

In my previous home, I had a relatively small 7.9 kW solar array, yet big enough to charge my EVs, power up my house and largely wipe out my utility bills; electricity was $0.13 there.

I still cannot justify a solar array where I live, will likely have one installed once kWh prices star to break $0.10.

Yes, electricity here is crazy. Good news is it makes the ROI for solar a no brainer, my ROI is under 50 months and that is not including the $200 a month I was spending for gas for the Jeep.

 

[bigsky]

Oh, you are absolutely right. What makes an EV more expensive to long trip in is the price of fast chargers. It sucks if someone cannot charge at home.
Charging at home, hell, it costs me less rhan $10 to fully charge my R1S, good for 308 miles, $80+ to gas up my 4Runner, good for 380. Reason why I rarely drive the latter, except during the harsh winter sometimes while I store my R1S to spare it the winter punishment.

Yes, electricity here is crazy. Good news is it makes the ROI for solar a no brainer, my ROI is under 50 months and that is not including the $200 a month I was spending for gas for the Jeep.

I missed that you had gone solar. That is awesome, good for you. It makes an awful lot of sense. Had I stayed in my previous home, I would have added battery storage as the local utility company started paying a pittance, less and less, for excess electricity pumped into the grid.

 

[PaythePiper]

How so?

Cost us $180 to drive from Phx to San Diego and back in March. Our Toyota Sienna? About $100 - and we didn’t have to wait around to charge. Evs suck for roadtrips from a cost perspective. Having said that, you couldn’t pay me to go back to ICE

 

[PaythePiper]

Home charging with solar is the game changer. At 1.5 cents per mile in the summer.

I really need to start looking into panels just to charge my cars. Full solar was hugging $40k for my total needs and would never see that money back before we sell the house (our electricity rates are still cheap)

 

[bigsky]

Cost us $180 to drive from Phx to San Diego and back in March. Our Toyota Sienna? About $100 - and we didn’t have to wait around to charge. Evs suck for roadtrips from a cost perspective. Having said that, you couldn’t pay me to go back to ICE

Ditto!

 

[evlavista]

How so?

.50kw 2 kw per mile if your lucky on highway .25 per mile.
3.00 gal gas makes my R1S 12 mpg.

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