V2X / V2L patents by Rivian

[scottf200]

Now I need to plan for how I can run a 120 Amp line to where I can install the future 24 kW charger. I was planning on putting in a 100 Amp line, but that isn't enough for 24 kW. Will need 120 Amps.

At some point the circuit breaker box capacity will be exceeded. I might need an electrician this time. Lol.

I feel you as I was having a 100 amp subpanel put in near my future Rivian garage stall.
25.0 kW at 240 volts is approximately 104.17 amps.
19.2 kW at 240 volts is ~ 80 amps tho and that should run every main thing (fridges, garage door, internet devices, etc) in our house since we decided on a heat pump hot water heater instead of an electric tankless!

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[mkhuffman]

I feel you as I was having a 100 amp subpanel put in near my future Rivian garage stall.
25.0 kW at 240 volts is approximately 104.17 amps.
19.2 kW at 240 volts is ~ 80 amps tho and that should run every main thing (fridges, garage door, internet devices, etc) in our house since we decided on a heat pump hot water heater instead of an electric tankless!

I was figuring 24 kW, which is 100 Amps at 240V. That requires a 120 Amp line. RJ just said "over" 20 kW, and 24 kW sounds like a good number to me!

 

[Polar]

I was figuring 24 kW, which is 100 Amps at 240V. That requires a 120 Amp line. RJ just said "over" 20 kW, and 24 kW sounds like a good number to me!

Anything over 11.5kW is gonna be DC folks.

And for our Gen1 anything worth it out from our trucks is gonna be DC as well.

That’ll need to be taken into account as well.

 

[Yossarian]

Anything over 11.5kW is gonna be DC folks.

And for our Gen1 anything worth it out from our trucks is gonna be DC as well.

That’ll need to be taken into account as well.

In the video that @scottf200 posted, RJ makes that point about G1 vehicles.

 

[iansriv]

I really do wonder what is rivians implementation of this because this will be huge for us people who want to go off grid.

It would also be very helpful in case of power outage. Maybe it's me but it seems like there are more weather related disasters these days.

 

[kanundrum]

It would also be very helpful in case of power outage. Maybe it's me but it seems like there are more weather related disasters these days.

Definitely my use case scenario alongside with reducing grid dependancy which also equates to cheaper bills

 

[Polar]

In the video that @scottf200 posted, RJ makes that point about G1 vehicles.

Main problem with that video being it is over a year old at this point.

 

[iansriv]

Definitely my use case scenario alongside with reducing grid dependancy which also equates to cheaper bills

You bring up a good point. I installed my first solar system about 3 years ago. As it was my first time, I didn't add batteries. This is what got me thinking about an EV and eventually a Rivian. I plan to add batteries in the future. Between this and my work set up; I drive essentially for free. It's also nice to derive power from a clean source.

 

[hammick]

When I first configured a critical loads panel to have our Lightning power our house I was thinking just for emergency backup power. Once I saw how well it worked our 100a critical loads panel became full. 7.2kw (30 amps) of 240v power is a lot. We got to the point where we were running our house daily off the truck. Everything except the electric oven, dryer and upstairs AC unit. It would run our 5 ton inverter based Lennox AC unit no problem.

Now that the Lightning has been lemon lawed back to Ford I purchased an XW6848 inverter and three EG4 14.3kwh wall mount batteries. The inverter will power our existing 50a auto transfer switch. I think I will move the oven and dryer over to the panel that will run off the inverter increasing our savings even more. 80% of the batteries capacity will be right at 35 kwh of power.

From Midnight to 6am our rates are .02 cents per kw in the winter and .03 kw in the summer. We charge our EVs and cold soak and dehumidify our house with AC (67 degrees) from Midnight to 6am. It stays nice and cool all day. During super hot spells I'll run the main floor AC for a couple hours in the late afternoon. Our energy use from 4pm to 8pm when it's .39 cents per kw is zero. This strategy save us approximately $1,500 per year off our electric bill and we have a fully powered house on the rare occasion we lose power.

If we end up getting a Denali EV we will have endless amounts of power for the house. If we get an R1T to replace the lightning we will miss the ability to offload power. I'll probably rig up my 48v golf cart charger to run off the Rivian 15a plug to give our battery bank some juice on super hot days.

 

[mkhuffman]

Anything over 11.5kW is gonna be DC folks.

And for our Gen1 anything worth it out from our trucks is gonna be DC as well.

That’ll need to be taken into account as well.

I believe that is how the Rivian charger will work. It converts DC from the battery to AC for the house. And of course, converts 240V and (I hope) 100 Amps of AC power into DC to charge at 24 kW. Probably 22 kW due to inverter losses.

The Rivian bidirectional charger will be very expensive, IMO. It won't be sub $1k like most EVSEs are today. I expect it will be more than the $5k charger posted on page 2 of this thread. Not sure that is worth it, but I still want to be ready for the future and run a 120 Amps to a subpanel for when that becomes a more reasonable option.

 

[MoreTrout]

If anyone is already familiar with Enphase based solar systems or is willing to look at a document I'll attach, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if I'm thinking about this right.

I currently have an Enphase based 8kW solar array. The permit application for the expansion was recently submitted, and in a couple of months will be upgraded to 12.1 kw. My R1T is approaching it's 3rd birthday, and we're on the list to add an R2. So all options RJ described in that video will be on the table for me.

When I did the initial solar installation in 2022, I did the sunlight backup option without a battery. I knew there wasn't much practical use to the solar only backup which is limited to 4 circuits and ~30% of the array output during a grid outage. But I knew then my R1T was about to arrive and bidirectional charging would be in the future. Since you need an Enphase controller for either sunlight backup or a backup battery or generator, my thinking was that the controller wasn't going to get cheaper for when I actually did need it, so included it in the initial installation. (inflation has since validated that decision)

Here is the link to the full guide for those that like to look at diagrams and specs, but the key wording I see is that the controller accepts "third party AC-standby generators to be connected to your home". https://enphase.com/download/understanding-sunlight-backup-system-homeowners
I recall my installer showing me the slot where a generator would get connected, and I'm almost positive he said it would accept any AC power source.

So if I am hearing what RJ said in that interview correctly, with the R2 having onboard AC-AC, in theory I could connect the vehicle to the Enphase controller with no additional interface/equipment required. I already knew the R1T would need the external inverter. The big question would be if the Enphase controller can preferentially draw from the vehicle instead of the grid when demand exceeds my solar output. It obviously draws from both when the grid is down, but I want it to look to the vehicle first to minimize or eliminate any use of the grid.

Of course Enphase has promised and delayed their own bidirectional charger for 3 years now. It's due in 2026. I would be 99.99% sure they make it to work with any EV from any manufacturer. I'm far, far less confident they would make Rivian's or any other 3rd party bidirectional charger compatible with their architecture. But it would be best if the R2 made any external device unnecessary.

Am I thinking about this correctly or am I way off?

 

[socaladam]

If anyone is already familiar with Enphase based solar systems or is willing to look at a document I'll attach, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if I'm thinking about this right.

I currently have an Enphase based 8kW solar array. The permit application for the expansion was recently submitted, and in a couple of months will be upgraded to 12.1 kw. My R1T is approaching it's 3rd birthday, and we're on the list to add an R2. So all options RJ described in that video will be on the table for me.

When I did the initial solar installation in 2022, I did the sunlight backup option without a battery. I knew there wasn't much practical use to the solar only backup which is limited to 4 circuits and ~30% of the array output during a grid outage. But I knew then my R1T was about to arrive and bidirectional charging would be in the future. Since you need an Enphase controller for either sunlight backup or a backup battery or generator, my thinking was that the controller wasn't going to get cheaper for when I actually did need it, so included it in the initial installation. (inflation has since validated that decision)

Here is the link to the full guide for those that like to look at diagrams and specs, but the key wording I see is that the controller accepts "third party AC-standby generators to be connected to your home". https://enphase.com/download/understanding-sunlight-backup-system-homeowners
I recall my installer showing me the slot where a generator would get connected, and I'm almost positive he said it would accept any AC power source.

So if I am hearing what RJ said in that interview correctly, with the R2 having onboard AC-AC, in theory I could connect the vehicle to the Enphase controller with no additional interface/equipment required. I already knew the R1T would need the external inverter. The big question would be if the Enphase controller can preferentially draw from the vehicle instead of the grid when demand exceeds my solar output. It obviously draws from both when the grid is down, but I want it to look to the vehicle first to minimize or eliminate any use of the grid.

Of course Enphase has promised and delayed their own bidirectional charger for 3 years now. It's due in 2026. I would be 99.99% sure they make it to work with any EV from any manufacturer. I'm far, far less confident they would make Rivian's or any other 3rd party bidirectional charger compatible with their architecture. But it would be best if the R2 made any external device unnecessary.

Am I thinking about this correctly or am I way off?

I have solar backup on our Enphase array. Yes, it’s limited to 4 circuits but that’s BS. The array at full sun (30 panels, 12kW) produces 9kW at its peak.

One of those circuits is powering our AC which draws 2.2kW when running. The other three power the fridges (2 of them), lights, fiber internet, and our TV.

Modern homes with LED lighting and energy efficient appliances barely draw 4kW combined unless you have a BIG ac unit.

As far as bidirectional charging, that was one of the strongest selling points for me to buy the R1S.

I even went so far as to upsize our 240 charging circuit with 6-4 cabling about 30 feet long. Should be good for 80A.

So now I’ve invested in a technology that appears to be vaporware.

 

[mkhuffman]

I have solar backup on our Enphase array. Yes, it’s limited to 4 circuits but that’s BS. The array at full sun (30 panels, 12kW) produces 9kW at its peak.

One of those circuits is powering our AC which draws 2.2kW when running. The other three power the fridges (2 of them), lights, fiber internet, and our TV.

Modern homes with LED lighting and energy efficient appliances barely draw 4kW combined unless you have a BIG ac unit.

As far as bidirectional charging, that was one of the strongest selling points for me to buy the R1S.

I even went so far as to upsize our 240 charging circuit with 6-4 cabling about 30 feet long. Should be good for 80A.

So now I’ve invested in a technology that appears to be vaporware.

Right now I am charging my R1T and the clothes dryer is running. And it is very hot, so the downstairs and upstairs air conditioners are running. I am pulling 23.3 kW from the power company. I can never run my house on solar. I don't even have an electric range or electric water heater - both are NG. Yet 23.3 kW.

I am planning to get solar to power a few circuits, but whole house solar will never happen in this house.

 

[mkhuffman]

If anyone is already familiar with Enphase based solar systems or is willing to look at a document I'll attach, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if I'm thinking about this right.

I currently have an Enphase based 8kW solar array. The permit application for the expansion was recently submitted, and in a couple of months will be upgraded to 12.1 kw. My R1T is approaching it's 3rd birthday, and we're on the list to add an R2. So all options RJ described in that video will be on the table for me.

When I did the initial solar installation in 2022, I did the sunlight backup option without a battery. I knew there wasn't much practical use to the solar only backup which is limited to 4 circuits and ~30% of the array output during a grid outage. But I knew then my R1T was about to arrive and bidirectional charging would be in the future. Since you need an Enphase controller for either sunlight backup or a backup battery or generator, my thinking was that the controller wasn't going to get cheaper for when I actually did need it, so included it in the initial installation. (inflation has since validated that decision)

Here is the link to the full guide for those that like to look at diagrams and specs, but the key wording I see is that the controller accepts "third party AC-standby generators to be connected to your home". https://enphase.com/download/understanding-sunlight-backup-system-homeowners
I recall my installer showing me the slot where a generator would get connected, and I'm almost positive he said it would accept any AC power source.

So if I am hearing what RJ said in that interview correctly, with the R2 having onboard AC-AC, in theory I could connect the vehicle to the Enphase controller with no additional interface/equipment required. I already knew the R1T would need the external inverter. The big question would be if the Enphase controller can preferentially draw from the vehicle instead of the grid when demand exceeds my solar output. It obviously draws from both when the grid is down, but I want it to look to the vehicle first to minimize or eliminate any use of the grid.

Of course Enphase has promised and delayed their own bidirectional charger for 3 years now. It's due in 2026. I would be 99.99% sure they make it to work with any EV from any manufacturer. I'm far, far less confident they would make Rivian's or any other 3rd party bidirectional charger compatible with their architecture. But it would be best if the R2 made any external device unnecessary.

Am I thinking about this correctly or am I way off?

It seems to me you are on the right track and certainly the truck can act as the generator. The problem I see is the Enphase won't be able to monitor the charge on your truck's battery, so it could run it down to dead. You definitely don't want a dead HVB. That is bad news.

 

[MoreTrout]

I have solar backup on our Enphase array. Yes, it’s limited to 4 circuits but that’s BS. The array at full sun (30 panels, 12kW) produces 9kW at its peak.

One of those circuits is powering our AC which draws 2.2kW when running. The other three power the fridges (2 of them), lights, fiber internet, and our TV.

Modern homes with LED lighting and energy efficient appliances barely draw 4kW combined unless you have a BIG ac unit.

As far as bidirectional charging, that was one of the strongest selling points for me to buy the R1S.

I even went so far as to upsize our 240 charging circuit with 6-4 cabling about 30 feet long. Should be good for 80A.

So now I’ve invested in a technology that appears to be vaporware.

Sounds like a very similar setup. I also had my charging outlet installed with wiring that would be capable of handling 80A even though I'm only using the 32A EVSE that came with the truck. But I wanted to future proof it. I doubt I'll ever splurge on an 80A split charger for both vehicles at the same time knowing what I know now, but nice to have.

My house "at rest" only uses 0.2-0.3 kW The roof my array is on is almost perfectly aligned South, so my current 8kW peaks as high as 7.3 in the spring and fall. I expect my 12kW to peak around 10.6-10.8. To be honest, we haven't had any significant or extended power outages in 3 years to even test the sunlight backup. It's setup for our Wifi, fridge, furnace, and a few outlets. Where I live, the furnace going out in the winter is a far bigger concern than the 2 AC units not being available in the summer.

I'm not as pessimistic to call it vaporware. The vehicles are already fully capable. Part of it is a well-intentioned attempt to standardize a lot of it and make it code compliant with codes that are outdated or in some cases don't exist yet. I'm honestly more annoyed with Enphase than Rivian at this point. I really believe they could have had a product available a year or two ago. But they were releasing their next gen home batteries and know damn well that they are still way overpriced and a working bidirectional charging solution would reduce demand for their home battery. I would still probably buy one from either company. It will just a be a matter of price competition and some other basic capabilities. As much as I like Enphase, I don't trust them to make the effort to integrate 3rd party bidirectional charging equipment. And Enphase being Enphase, there will be a price premium. Which tbf, will also likely be an issue with Rivian's.

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