12-Month review: I can't recommend the R1S for most people

[Donald Stanfield]

What is rivian's gross margin? Or are you speculating? They'd share this number if it was good



They have the equivalent feature there. It's called high fidelity park assist. Tesla's implementation is more difficult to implement and saves the company money.

No company is going to tell you their margins. Rivian has said it is gross-margin positive several times. That's primarily what Gen 2 was about: reducing costs and becoming gross margin positive. It's not speculation, it's plain fact.

Also, it's not equivalent to the 360-degree camera because it doesn't offer the same top-down view of your car. You don't get points in my book for implementing a feature that doesn't work as well, regardless of how hard it is for you. Tesla wants to cheap out on quality across many areas, leading to a worse consumer experience. Then, Teslastans like you tell people they are wrong for not accepting that garbage. We aren't.

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[mkhuffman]

What is rivian's gross margin? Or are you speculating? They'd share this number if it was good

It's publicly available so there is no need to speculate:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-worth-148m-officially-dies.53194/post-906369

 

[sunydrm]

Also, it's not equivalent to the 360-degree camera because it doesn't offer the same top-down view of your car. You don't get points in my book for implementing a feature that doesn't work as well, regardless of how hard it is for you. Tesla wants to cheap out on quality across many areas, leading to a worse consumer experience. Then, Teslastans like you tell people they are wrong for not accepting that garbage. We aren't.

It is a top down view of your car. It is a direct top down view that shows your car in relationship to the parking lines and all the cars around you

 

[sunydrm]

It's publicly available so there is no need to speculate:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-worth-148m-officially-dies.53194/post-906369

yes and under that I get that rivian is losing money on every car. -8.8% margin

 

[skyguyscott]

Did you get the upgraded audio, or do you have the standard audio?

I think the audio in my Tri-Max souinds great, until you turn up the volume. I don't listen to classical, but with what I listen to it sounds pretty balanced. I just wish they would have put all the speakers in phase.

You might try putting your head down between the seats, so you are lined up with the door speakers and about halfway between them. See if it sounds better.

I notice a huge improvement in the lower frequencies when I do that. 500-3000 Hz not "lower", but the phase issue could be causing weird acoustics in that range. IDK. It is true fading all the way to the front should provide similar results. Unless you have the sub. I don't think that is impacted by the fader - just the door speakers are.

Heh. Love "sounds great until you turn up the volume," and lost it with the inspired head between the seats advice, because, of course! I bow to your droll genius-level wit. I shall chuckle myself to sleep tonight envisioning audiophiles driving their Rivians contorted on the floor enjoying the euphoric sweet spot.

 

[mkhuffman]

yes and under that I get that rivian is losing money on every car. -8.8% margin

You are a piece of work. You are being intentionally misleading, aren't you?

 

[2kwik4u]

Unique - Rivian. Every other car seems to be a Tesla 3 or Y.

My buddy calls Tesla's "California Camrys" for this very reason.

 

[Great Gatsby]

I love my Rivian, and can't agree with most of the comments from the OP. With that said, I do agree with the final sentiment. I can't recommend it to EVERYONE, but can recommend it with the caveat of patience with things like getting service appointments and other minor issues. If you know what you are walking into, then Rivian can work for you. If you have no patience and want your car to work 100% of the time, then Lexus sells cars for a reason.

 

[2kwik4u]

Define "better."

My Rivian, and seemingly most, have vastly more problems that require service. I've had more repairs in 15k miles than I had in 40k on the Tesla, by far. No arguments here. Mines been in the shop 11 times in 14mo. HOWEVER........My experience with Rivian customer service has made those 11 visits almost an after thought. I know this varies around the country, but for me. I'll take a non-working Rivian over a single experience with Tesla customer service.

ADAS--obviously objectively far better on the Tesla, that's an easy one. The only reason I'll conceded here is because Tesla's isn't geofenced. Otherwise, even my G1 Rivian is more predictable and trustworthy than any experience I've had with FSD in a Tesla. While raw capability might be higher, the lack of trust in FSD kills it for me. The workload to monitor FSD because I don't trust it is the same as driving myself, so it's a wash for me. The Rivian I can legitimately trust to be consistent and alert if it needs my attention, leading to a net reduction in drive workload. If it wasn't geofenced to freeways, it would be the winner IMO.

Luxury? Rivian wins of course, easily. But it's a $105k vehicle against a $40k vehicle...no comparison. SOOOO many people thought Tesla was a luxury brand when they came out because of the high price tag. They've never been luxury IMO, and the price has just finally adjusted to match the rest of the market. Agreed here.

Charging options--Tesla obviously wins, that's just a math fact of having more chargers that are Tesla only. This is a wash in practice, might be a numerical win, but in real world usage I suspect the "winning margin" is very slim.

Charging speed--my Tesla was consistently faster at the same locations. I tried Tesla, Ionna, and EA stations on my recent 1,200mi road trip. They all seem to peak around 200kW. EA held the longest on the high part of the curve, with Ionna being the least best. I really think there are way too many variable here to call this a win. It's a tie IMO.

I do like the Rivian UI a bit better, other than it seems to have more bugs/reboots. Not a big deal. Mine doesn't reboot, well, ever really. Unless I initiate it. Youtube crashes every time, but it's not a reboot it dumps me back to main screen that still works. I agree, this is a tie

So...I want to hear what is better without involving some political shit about their Glorious Leader.

Couple notes above, don't completely agree with the analysis there. I tried to make them red for clarity but formatting doesn't seem to want to stick.

SO.......what makes Rivian better.

Versatility - I can rock crawl in the morning, then canyon carve back to the hotel, then road trip home tomorrow morning. The suspension (while loud and clunky) is significantly adaptable to varying driving demands. We've all seen the comparisons with the Cybertruk, and I think it's a pretty obvious win for Rivian in this regard. A quad motor R1S can compete with any model across Tesla's line in any venue you choose and come out with a better experience, and it's all in a single model.

General build quality - This is close to that luxury item ahead, and is somewhat price point dependent, HOWEVER, the Rivian "feels" better put together. The doors shut with a thud, the chassis feels well composed, the interior fit and finish is better. It's just a generally nicer experience to be in/around than a Tesla.

I could probably come up with some more, but this is likely to spur enough conversation......assuming you don't lash out again like the last time we interacted.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

You are a piece of work. You are being intentionally misleading, aren't you?

I don't think it's them being intentionally misleading. I think it's a case of a lack of understanding of foundational business principles.

 

[mkhuffman]

I don't think it's them being intentionally misleading. I think it's a case of a lack of understanding of foundational business principles.

And he cherry picks to find just the information he needs to support his position, while ignoring everything else. Rivian is on track to either break even or make a per vehicle positive margin in 2025. Will they do it? We will find out when they release their Q4 results, but there have been two positive quarters in the last year, so it is definitely possible.

Yet he ignores all that just to focus on Q3 results. It really does seem like he doesn't understand even basic business accounting and finance. Which is fine, because a lot of people don't. But he posts like he knows what he is talking about, intentionally misleading people. Grrr.

 

[SwampNut]

Charging speed--my Tesla was consistently faster at the same locations. I tried Tesla, Ionna, and EA stations on my recent 1,200mi road trip. They all seem to peak around 200kW. EA held the longest on the high part of the curve, with Ionna being the least best. I really think there are way too many variable here to call this a win. It's a tie IMO.

The point was that Tesla charging *IN* a Tesla was always faster than Tesla charging in a Rivian.

As far as availability, just like the rock crawling that most people do, yes, it's an outlier situation. I've faced it while towing. In fact, probably every time I towed. That's because you need to charge more often and there are more Tesla-only SCs around.

 

[electruck]

And he cherry picks to find just the information he needs to support his position, while ignoring everything else.

sadly, this seems to be how the world turns these days.

 

[SwampNut]

People talk about the (probably bogus) German figures on Tesla, but I see posts like this all the time:

I’ve been eagerly anticipating the R2 release. I saw this article on top nine worst ev reliability records based off of Consumer Reports reviews. Two of the nine were Rivians. Just wondering what everyone’s experiences have been with the R1’s. Are these jokers for real about this? I’m still going full steam ahead on this…

Problem is, with Tesla, Rivian, and to some extent certain other non-mainstream cars, the numbers aren't useful. Tesla gets called out for recalls where it's just an overnight software update. So stupid. I've owned Jeeps, where CR always said they were horrible. But it included self-induced off road incident repairs.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Probably, just like Jeep buyers who do the same thing, and bitch about it.

My favorite is Jeep Wrangler Owners complaining about the ride quality.

Every vehicle has its unique traits.

Rivian - Passive entry system just ignores you for a few awkward seconds and the HVAC will always be a complete disaster.

Defender - Service will cost as much as the car itself once its out of warranty.

Jeep Wrangler - Bad Ride Quality and they all eventually leak in the rain.

Personally I felt like the OP nicely summed up the issues the vehicle has for the average buyer who is looking for a 3rd row SUV. Most of them I've heard before.

I have an R1T and I have some of the issues but I still recommend it because of its overall capabilities.

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