RJ on CarPlay (Autoblog Post / Stratechery Interview)

[iQB]

Prior Tesla owner here for nearly a decade (non CarPlay)...

The only time I ever thought twice about Apple CarPlay, was when I purchased my Rivian in March of this year and realized it didn't have basic text message integration. I was very annoyed about this, and still am, but it's great to see that this basic feature is on the way now.

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[Dark-Fx]

Did not miss anything. I was joking. Point being: Times have changed and technology with it. Adapt. It is what it is and too many people choose to waste energy complaining instead.

My adaptations include: shouting into the void.

 

[Dark-Fx]

We all suffer.

Especially those of us who have never set foot in a Rivian, right?

How many more Rivians would have been sold by now to people who would have bought one if CarPlay had been an option? Thousands?

Trillions. More vehicles than will ever be sold in past or future history.

What is yet again interesting is I’m not arguing FOR CP but rather what Rivian did deliver, Apple Music. Because it is so lackluster, it keeps CP discussions going. If Rivian really delivered Apple Music integration; no 1-2 min lag loading Favorites, limited playlists, non/syncing with playlists that were updated days ago, then there would be little enthusiasm for CP, but they haven’t. So, CP, something Rivian doesn’t support & is less than acceptable still looks better than the Rivian version where they own the whole stack.

I'd like your opinion on GM's Apple Music implementation.

I think Rivian would do well to swallow its considerable pride and explore working with Apple as a partner

You don't get native Apple Music without Apple's partnership. I'll let that sink in for you.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I think Rivian would do well to swallow its considerable pride and explore working with Apple as a partner.

Rivian does work with Apple (and Google). What do you think gen 2's Apple Wallet Key, the Google-powered navigation update and upcoming Gemini-powered AI Assistant are??

It's not about pride. It's about future growth and revenue of the company. It's about building on top of Rivian's software stack to one day deliver a totally integrated vehicle-borne software platform that can compete against all existing and future rivals. Set knee-jerk emotions aside, pause the complaining, and take in all of the headlines. Rivian isn't just a car company. It is evolving and aiming to also become a mobility technology company. It has also said, more than once, that it and its JV with VW are aiming to create a product that could be licensed to other OEMs.

It's about business and long-term sustainability of it. It's about starting somewhere with the business (and its product) and building it into something greater. If you want CarPlay so bad, spend the $ on any of the aftermarket options, whether it's the tacky add-on screens or the EV Play. Or just buy a different car. It's not as if solutions aren't available and endless public complaining is the only available course of action. Arguing about it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

My adaptations include: shouting into the void.

And that's worked so well.

 

[Obioban]

This horse just won't stay dead... because there are just enough people who don't think past the surface or knee-jerk emotions.

Amusingly, you're only seeing the people that are annoyed by carplay, but not the deal breaker people.

I didn't get a Rivian because of lack of CarPlay.

Overwhelmingly (95% of the time), what I listen to is podcasts. Having it on carplay is HUGELY important for podcasts, because it keep play positions, what you've listened to, etc, synced between different cars, walking, working, etc. Without that, if I take the M3 one day and complete a podcast, then get in the M5 the next day and it would show as unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it, then get in the land cruiser the next day and it would be unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it, and then go for a walk later and it would be unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it. Repeat, for every episode of anything you listen to. And, the issue compounds over time. E.g. I don't drive the M3 in the winter-- so come spring I'd have to delete hundred of episodes that it wouldn't know I've never listened to.

A podcast app unique to a car is a terrible solution. Having to manually redelete the same file across multiple platforms is user hostile.

Beyond that, using CarPlay, I get to use my preferred Podcast app-- overcast. It doesn't even exist on android, so there's no way the developer is going to make car specific versions of the app.

Further, eventually they are going to monetize this. Want to keep using the Rivian systems, which require internet access? That'll be yet another monthly subscription.

All told, no carplay means it's no car for me.

 

[KBabione]

All told, no carplay means it's no car for me.

Where in PA are you? PM me if you're interested in seeing CarPlay implemented on a Rivian using the EVPlay solution.

 

[COdogman]

Amusingly, you're only seeing the people that are annoyed by carplay, but not the deal breaker people.

I didn't get a Rivian because of lack of CarPlay.

Overwhelmingly (95% of the time), what I listen to is podcasts. Having it on carplay is HUGELY important for podcasts, because it keep play positions, what you've listened to, etc, synced between different cars, walking, working, etc. Without that, if I take the M3 one day and complete a podcast, then get in the M5 the next day and it would show as unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it, then get in the land cruiser the next day and it would be unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it, and then go for a walk later and it would be unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it. Repeat, for every episode of anything you listen to. And, the issue compounds over time. E.g. I don't drive the M3 in the winter-- so come spring I'd have to delete hundred of episodes that it wouldn't know I've never listened to.

A podcast app unique to a car is a terrible solution. Having to manually redelete the same file across multiple platforms is user hostile.

Beyond that, using CarPlay, I get to use my preferred Podcast app-- overcast. It doesn't even exist on android, so there's no way the developer is going to make car specific versions of the app.

Further, eventually they are going to monetize this. Want to keep using the Rivian systems, which require internet access? That'll be yet another monthly subscription.

All told, no carplay means it's no car for me.

You don't need CarPlay to listen to podcasts in a Rivian

Also thanks for inventing Connect+ for them. All automakers have connectivity options that are an extra fee. Including BMW, which you chose to compare with Rivian

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Amusingly, you're only seeing the people that are annoyed by carplay, but not the deal breaker people.

I didn't get a Rivian because of lack of CarPlay.

Overwhelmingly (95% of the time), what I listen to is podcasts. Having it on carplay is HUGELY important for podcasts, because it keep play positions, what you've listened to, etc, synced between different cars, walking, working, etc. Without that, if I take the M3 one day and complete a podcast, then get in the M5 the next day and it would show as unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it, then get in the land cruiser the next day and it would be unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it, and then go for a walk later and it would be unplayed and I'd have to manually delete it. Repeat, for every episode of anything you listen to. And, the issue compounds over time. E.g. I don't drive the M3 in the winter-- so come spring I'd have to delete hundred of episodes that it wouldn't know I've never listened to.

A podcast app unique to a car is a terrible solution. Having to manually redelete the same file across multiple platforms is user hostile.

Beyond that, using CarPlay, I get to use my preferred Podcast app-- overcast. It doesn't even exist on android, so there's no way the developer is going to make car specific versions of the app.

Further, eventually they are going to monetize this. Want to keep using the Rivian systems, which require internet access? That'll be yet another monthly subscription.

All told, no carplay means it's no car for me.

I see them all. Including those who aren't even owners, don't contribute anything useful to the ownership experience and knowledge base, don't have any hands-on experience with state of Rivian's software, but stick around just to complain and be added to the ignore list.

 

[Obioban]

You don't need CarPlay to listen to podcasts in a Rivian

Also thanks for inventing Connect+ for them. All automakers have connectivity options that are an extra fee. Including BMW, which you chose to compare with Rivian

I need CarPlay for podcasts to not be horribly annoying in a Rivian, for the reason I explained in the post you quoted.

... and all my cars have their modem's cell phone antenna's disconnected, because i don't want any car makers having that kind of access to me.

 

[COdogman]

I need CarPlay for podcasts to not be horribly annoying in a Rivian, for the reason I explained in the post you quoted.

... and all my cars have their modem's cell phone antenna's disconnected, because i don't want any car makers having that kind of access to me.

Ok... you don't need CarPlay to listen to podcasts in a Rivian without being "horribly annoying", even if you choose to not subscribe to Connect+

 

[therealcmj]

You don't need CarPlay to listen to podcasts in a Rivian

Correct, you don't. But there's no Podcast app on the native UI so you have to jump through a hoop or two. You can listen to them via bluetooth from your phone; but that's "suboptimal" in that you have to nav and choose podcasts and episodes to watch with your phone and the Rivian screen allows only very limited controls. Or you could change from your preferred podcast app to using Spotify for podcasts too; but that means moving all your subscriptions to Spotify which is a nonstarter for many people. And even then the UI on your phone and car are disjointed and built by two different people with totally different ideas about how the experience should be; one of which is 100% laser focused on the media consumption experience and the other is mostly focused on driving with 10% attention to audio.

And if you listen to podcasts at the gym, on an Echo/HomePod/whatevergooglecallstherething at home, in car1, and in car2 you then have the issue of figuring out which service everything supports. Which suuuuucks.

I get it, you don't think CarPlay is important. But the reality is that for a ton of potential buyers it IS a deal breaker. And looking forward, once Rivian starts selling the R2 in more countries this is only going to get worse since France has a different set of streaming services than Germany which is different from the Scandanavian countries, etc. on and on. And since R2 buyers won't be early adopters they will have expectations and non-negotiables that are likely far more demanding than what (us) early adopters are willing to accept. And as Rivian has to support more and more music services they'll be forced to expend legal, dev, and QA efforts that could be better spent elsewhere on audio.

 

[COdogman]

Correct, you don't. But there's no Podcast app on the native UI so you have to jump through a hoop or two. You can listen to them via bluetooth from your phone; but that's "suboptimal" in that you have to nav and choose podcasts and episodes to watch with your phone and the Rivian screen allows only very limited controls. Or you could change from your preferred podcast app to using Spotify for podcasts too; but that means moving all your subscriptions to Spotify which is a nonstarter for many people. And even then the UI on your phone and car are disjointed and built by two different people with totally different ideas about how the experience should be; one of which is 100% laser focused on the media consumption experience and the other is mostly focused on driving with 10% attention to audio.

And if you listen to podcasts at the gym, on an Echo/HomePod/whatevergooglecallstherething at home, in car1, and in car2 you then have the issue of figuring out which service everything supports. Which suuuuucks.

I get it, you don't think CarPlay is important. But the reality is that for a ton of potential buyers it IS a deal breaker. And looking forward, once Rivian starts selling the R2 in more countries this is only going to get worse since France has a different set of streaming services than Germany which is different from the Scandanavian countries, etc. on and on. And since R2 buyers won't be early adopters they will have expectations and non-negotiables that are likely far more demanding than what (us) early adopters are willing to accept. And as Rivian has to support more and more music services they'll be forced to expend legal, dev, and QA efforts that could be better spent elsewhere on audio.

That makes sense. And FWIW I do understand why people say they want CarPlay. Honestly I don't care either way if Rivian decides to offer it. If they eventually do I can choose to not use it. And ultimately if Rivian decides it is truly hurting their business they should include it. That is more important than holding the line on this, even if I agree with the stance they are taking....

I just get tired of hearing that it's a "safety issue" (not that anyone in this thread said that yet), or that life is impossible without it.... such as being extremely rigid in which apps one uses for specific things - we all have to go through that whether CarPlay is involved or not.

...or those who refuse to subscribe to a service that would give them what they want because of unrelated preferences (like not wanting internet access through the manufacturer). That isn't Rivian's fault. And if that is your preference then just use your phone w/ BT connection and stop complaining.

...or those pretending that CarPlay is some excellent experience across all deployments in all brands and all apps. Because my experiences with it over the years have been the opposite of that across many different vehicles. So if CarPlay isn't perfect then why is Rivian held to a different standard? (Not saying that you suggested it was perfect - just illustrating a point).

 

[JM.]

Overwhelmingly (95% of the time), what I listen to is podcasts. Having it on carplay is HUGELY important for podcasts, because it keep play positions, what you've listened to, etc, synced between different cars, walking, working, etc.

Same, and all of those things are important. PLUS the fact that you can't do a quick skip forward or review back on the car display. I do this often. Forward past bullshit/ads or review a section I missed or want to understand better. So I have to do it on the phone.

And THAT'S the safety issue, LOL. I had to invoke that.

 

[hudesigns]

What is yet again interesting is I’m not arguing FOR CP but rather what Rivian did deliver, Apple Music. Because it is so lackluster, it keeps CP discussions going. If Rivian really delivered Apple Music integration; no 1-2 min lag loading Favorites, limited playlists, non/syncing with playlists that were updated days ago, then there would be little enthusiasm for CP, but they haven’t. So, CP, something Rivian doesn’t support & is less than acceptable still looks better than the Rivian version where they own the whole stack.

It makes you think that Rivian software team really does not understand how digital media works between devices a modern person possesses. All devices need to be in sync — this is NOT a new concept in year of 2025! Judging from how poorly they execute audio system after Meridian, they simply are not up to task of creating quality media system that matches quality of their vehicle. I hope Rivian understands how crazy this is.

 

[hudesigns]

Here is my workaround to use my essential apps for driving. I made a page in iPhone just for the road and put phone on a charging holder to left of driver screen:

Podcast
TuneIn
Google map
Apple map
Amazon Music
YouTube Music
Ask Alexa

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