Rivian R1T charging curve test 20-80% [by TFL]

[SeaGeo]

Something is not quite right here. From what I can tell in the data, it took 20 minutes to go from 20% to 50% SOC (a 30% increment) at a reasonably constant charge rate close to 150 kW/hr. Then it took almost exactly the same duration (21 mins) to go from 50% SOC to 80% SOC, which also an increment of 30%. However the charge rate was much lower. How is that possible? Given the lower charge rate, it should have taken much longer to go from 50% to 80% SOC than it did to go from 20% to 50% SOC. @TFLtommy, do you have any idea what might be going on? My suspicion is the car is giving erroneous SOC % readings...

Edit: I quickly summed the kWh delivered according to @TFLtommy's numbers and I am right: the R1T is giving erroneous SOC data. See the table here:

This simple calc shows that it really goes from 20% to 50% in only 16 minutes (not 20). And also notice that this calc gives the correct cumulative kWh delivered (same as on the charging station screen). Something is wrong with the R1T data...

So the data on the charging screen doesn't include loses that's often in the 10 to 15%. You can't really rely on that alone. the 73kwh report by the truck vs 84 kwh by the charger makes sense, as Branden noted.

I am still pretty confused how it went from 20 to 50% in 20 minutes, and then 50 to 80% in another 21 minutes despite the steep curve as shown, unless the SOC is off as you noted. That the car reported 73kwh added for 60% of the also either seems to suggest a smaller usable battery (~ 123kwh) than we've all been thinking, or maybe the bms is off "a bit."

I suspect Rivian is pulling a Tesla in this regard and only displaying the energy delivered to the battery rather than energy pulled from the station for battery charging and auxiliary use.

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[SeaGeo]

The bigger the battery pack, the greater the importance of charge rate.

This thread has given some really good experience based charging tips. I’m going to tinker with some of my ABRP “test routes” and see how some of these changes impact my itinerary.

for what it's worth, I mapped out a trip from Seattle to Boise on my mobile drive in the R1T nav system, and IIRC the stops were all ~20 minutes. The predicted charging times didn't give me much pause.

 

[electruck]

Yes, but a 400V system can charge at over 200kW. The last 25% that Rivian is currently sitting on is significant.

Can is the key word. Rivian isn't "sitting on" 25% if the EVSE isn't supplying 500 Amps and that's a detail we don't know about the TFL charging session.

 

[R1S Maineiac]

Can is the key word. Rivian isn't "sitting on" 25% if the EVSE isn't supplying 500 Amps and that's a detail we don't know about the TFL charging session.

We do know they're sitting on at least some overhead, as the fastest we've seen is ~180kW from other sources.

Whether it's 20kW+ or 50kW+, they can unleash more.

 

[Max]

A fairer comparison of cost/mile would be for a 5000+ lb SUV or pickup - not an Outback. Cost per mile will be much closer...

If one does all their charging at a public (expensive) station cost per mile can be fairly high. Most people will be doing the bulk of their charging at home for rates much less than $0.31/KWh. In my situation I will be paying a little over $0.10/KWh when charging from the grid, or free when powered by my rooftop PV array.

I agree with everything you said. I was not trying to be fair. I was just thinking out loud as an EV virgin. One of the members here recently dropped out due to inefficiency of the truck/SUV. The power consumption for what it offers is expected. However for me personally the internal conflict remains. I wanted the power for towing not 0-60 and not convinced I won’t have regrets using a BEV for towing long distance.

The reason I did the comp with outback is that once I get my Rivian, we will always have to take my wife’s Outback to our annual Maine trip for multiple reasons:

• With her outback, we can make it there in one day, with Rivian we may have to break it into two (her charge time is 500+ mile in five minutes).
• It costs more to get there and back with Rivian
• It takes more planning and with more limited charging infrastructure in Maine, it may take the spontaneity out of the experience.

I can hear her already: “Why did you pay $80K for this if we have to take my car?”

so I am thinking if Rivian is going to be just for local drives and it won’t be towing a camper, should I just get a fireproof bolt that does 4 mile/kwh for 95% of my driving and an ICE truck for the other 5% instead? …. man it is late and the heart and mind conflict is confusing me more by the minute. Didn’t mean to drag you down this path with me. Hopefully things will be more clear in the morning.

 

[SeaGeo]

I agree with everything you said. I was not trying to be fair. I was just thinking out loud as an EV virgin. One of the members here recently dropped out due to inefficiency of the truck/SUV. The power consumption for what it offers is expected. However for me personally the internal conflict remains. I wanted the power for towing not 0-60 and not convinced I won’t have regrets using a BEV for towing long distance.

The reason I did the comp with outback is that once I get my Rivian, we will always have to take my wife’s Outback to our annual Maine trip for multiple reasons:

• With her outback, we can make it there in one day, with Rivian we may have to break it into two (her charge time is 500+ mile in five minutes).
• It costs more to get there and back with Rivian
• It takes more planning and with more limited charging infrastructure in Maine, it may take the spontaneity out of the experience.

I can hear her already: “Why did you pay $80K for this if we have to take my car?”

so I am thinking if Rivian is going to be just for local drives and it won’t be towing a camper, should I just get a fireproof bolt that does 4 mile/kwh for 95% of my driving and an ICE truck for the other 5% instead? …. man it is late and the heart and mind conflict is confusing me more by the minute. Didn’t mean to drag you down this path with me. Hopefully things will be more clear in the morning.

Have you tried looking into planned DCFC locations that aren't currently built along your trip(s) to Maine?

You definitely have some hard decisions. I know you don't live there, but I get the point. I have a lot of friends and family in the Dakotas and MN, and if I still lived in South Dakota, I'd having very similar thoughts. Or Idaho? Even with RAN, there isn't a viable way to go "have an adventure" in literally just drive north through the State to get to areas to have an adventure unless you pause overnight to find a hotel to use a level 2 charger at.

 

[Max]

Have you tried looking into planned DCFC locations that aren't currently built along your trip(s) to Maine?

Great idea. I will check them out.

 

[hroussel]

That 20-80% in 41mins is definitely much slower than everyone would expect. Hopefully some OTA updates will improve this.

Just for comparison I looked at some of my charging sessions in my 5 year old S75D, which is far from the fastest charging car out there. A 13-70% (+57%) charge took 32 mins. A 30-90% (+60%) charge took 40mins.

The comparison is not totally fair as my 60% represent 150mi of range compared to 188mi in the Rivian. But still, having done lots of roadtrip in my Tesla I can attest to the fact that, unless I planned ahead of time to charge while having lunch/supper, the charging always felt slow.

 

[branden]

That 20-80% in 41mins is definitely much slower than everyone would expect. Hopefully some OTA updates will improve this.

Just for comparison I looked at some of my charging sessions in my 5 year old S75D, which is far from the fastest charging car out there. A 13-70% (+57%) charge took 32 mins. A 30-90% (+60%) charge took 40mins.

The comparison is not totally fair as my 60% represent 150mi of range compared to 188mi in the Rivian. But still, having done lots of roadtrip in my Tesla I can attest to the fact that, unless I planned ahead of time to charge while having lunch/supper, the charging always felt slow.

See @rhuber 's post: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...urve-test-20-80-by-tfl.3417/page-6#post-93227

 

[Riviot]

Or Idaho? Even with RAN, there isn't a viable way to go "have an adventure" in literally just drive north through the State to get to areas to have an adventure unless you pause overnight to find a hotel to use a level 2 charger at.

This is my plan for summer. While the Bear Den in Grangeville or KOA Kooskia aren't my normal recreation.gov type stops, both have RV plugs for that 220v overnight level 2.

 

[ironpig]

Clearly there are a lot of first time EV buyers here and they justifiably have range anxiety. The Rivian is the least (or one of the least..Hummer etc) efficient EV you can buy. The combination of these two things is starting to dawn on a lot of reservation holders.

I've been driving a Model S with an 85 battery since 2014 and I've never had range over about 240 miles. Seemed scary at first, but it's never been an issue for me. The Rivian will actually give me more range than my Tesla even though it's more inefficient. If I didn't have a massive solar array at home and therefore very cheap EV fuel at my house, I'd be more concerned with charging times and costs of the Rivian. But for my use case, it's not a concern a all.

But what it brings to light is that Rivian would do themselves a big service if they would put some real world trip examples on their website and show exactly how you drive and charge the truck when you are planning a roadtrip. It would be a really helpful and transparent sales tool that should use examples of trips in 6-8 different regions of the country.

 

[hroussel]

See @rhuber 's post: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...urve-test-20-80-by-tfl.3417/page-6#post-93227

Yes I saw that. Interesting analysis.

However the test with the Tesla was more of a scientific experiment, as the driver wanted to test out traveling with CCS charging. By going through V3 SuperChargers the charge time would have reduced significantly.

And here's the main issue. Most 350kw chargers, at least here in Canada, are capped at 350A. Below that you have a handful of 200kw chargers which could provide the best charging for Rivian's. And then 150kw and slower chargers.

So most of the time on long trips you'll be charging with a max rate of 150kw. All the more reason to be able to keep that charge speed at least up to 80%.

If an e-tron 55 can do it (charge at 150kw up to 80%) with a much smaller battery pack, then Rivian should be able to do it as well.

 

[branden]

Yes I saw that. Interesting analysis.

However the test with the Tesla was more of a scientific experiment, as the driver wanted to test out traveling with CCS charging. By going through V3 SuperChargers the charge time would have reduced significantly.

And here's the main issue. Most 350kw chargers, at least here in Canada, are capped at 350A. Below that you have a handful of 200kw chargers which could provide the best charging for Rivian's. And then 150kw and slower chargers.

So most of the time on long trips you'll be charging with a max rate of 150kw. All the more reason to be able to keep that charge speed at least up to 80%.

If an e-tron 55 can do it (charge at 150kw up to 80%) with a much smaller battery pack, then Rivian should be able to do it as well.

There aren't many V3 Superchargers along that route - that's part of why @rhuber used EA. I do think a more aggressive curve is possible.

 

[SANZC02]

I guess that would be the prudent thing to do, but it's very unlikely an entire EA station would be down. I've roadtripped my VW ID.4 around the country and never had an issue charging.

Unlikely but not. Impossible, the Indio Supercharger was offline this week when I pulled up to it. They were doing some maintenance on it, was told I can come back in a couple of hours.

 

[Forager]

for what it's worth, I mapped out a trip from Seattle to Boise on my mobile drive in the R1T nav system, and IIRC the stops were all ~20 minutes. The predicted charging times didn't give me much pause.

20 minutes is perfect. Goal for me is 20-30 minutes approximately every 2.5 hours to let the family take a break. I learned that was the ideal interval on our trip to Yellowstone last summer.

My routes I use for backstopping are:

-Seattle to Mazama/Winthrop (winter conditions, southern I-90 route)
-Seattle to Missoula
-Seattle to Leavenworth round trip

These are the routes we most routinely do in a single day. Any longer trip is multiple days, so comparing these to my ICE itinerary gave me a lot of confidence that road tripping in an EV would be comfortable provided it had close to 300 mi range.

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