New to forums and Rivian - want to discuss my pre-purchase concerns

[mpshizzle]

Thank you so much for your input. We love ours too. But my wife is NOT a fan of charging. So I'm thinking the extended range of the R2 would get her to almost everywhere she wants to go and back with one charge.

Now that my 21 Select is out of warranty, etc, software updates are non-existent. Plus the dealer actually charged me almost a grand once to update the 13 that were lagging in Ford's system. Was really bogus. I switched dealers after that. Do you have a home charger? I have a Ford one and wonder if it would interface with the Rivian. Don't want to spend another grand on that.

Thanks again

Yeah, I found a lot of Ford dealers do not like working on EVs. Some are better than others. And yes! The ford charger will work with any EV. But with the industry moving to NACS (the tesla port) you'll need to get an AC J-1772 to NACS adapter. But they're not too expensive on amazon.

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[carsly]

Is this for your normal every day driving? Or are you doing a lot of towing at freeway speeds in the mountains during winter?

My R1S data is everyday driving over 12 months - so all four seasons in NJ. Zero towing and very limited highway usage (stupid A pillar wind noise is horrendous). I believe the short trips are torpedoing my efficiency but that's suburb life.

Meanwhile my Tesla doesn't suffer nearly as much in identical conditions, my Cybertruck of similar size/weight (carrying a full-sized spare wheel/tire as well) will do 2.5 - 3 mi/kwh across all four seasons. If ambient temps are sub-10 degrees F then i'm looking at 1.8-2 mi/kwh but have never dipped below that. I can also get a tick above 3 mi/kwh in summer months. Go figure on 35" all terrains vs. 33" all-seasons on the Rivian.

 

[GreggVA]

Seems like you are talking yourself out of wanting one. Are your issues ranked?

1) Range issues - they have good range compared to others but there are better - buy a Silverado

2) "Rivians NEED a split phase 240v outlet. Proprietary V2H systems are not acceptable." - seems like more of a statement than question. You are not going to get split phase 240 right now. - buy a Ford F150 Lightning

3) Severe concerns over regen limitations. - don't see this as an issue - buy a Rivian

4) Security and Privacy concerns about the connectivity on the vehicle. - You are way deep in this one. Pretty much all vehicles are connected. The fact that Rivian has left the canbus open may allow you to address this. Seems like this is an issue regardless of the vehicle you choose. - buy a Rivian

5) Durability for the long haul. - I too keep vehicles for the long haul and have found that it is more about how you treat them. Every vehicle will have issues. The great thing about Rivian is that they are committed to making things better and there is a very active community supporting this. - buy a Rivian

6) Can I stream video like netflix, amazon prime and youtube to the infotainment system while charging? - Yes but is this really a deal breaker? I would seriously consider not buying an EV if I could not charge at home. The only time I really look at the infotainment system is charging on a trip. My Tesla MYP has a much better infotainment system but that's not why I bought it. If infotainment is that important - buy a cyberyuk

7) Is there any confirmed way to sideload apps on the infotainment system. - see above - buy a cyberyuk

8) Lack of brake blending and true two pedal mode. - yes GM is better - buy a Silverado

I will also not that the reason you give for equivocation on the purchase is "I do feel like I'm forcing it given these potential issues but driving one of these makes me not think clearly with all that power" but you never mention power as a factor in your purchase. Hands down, a 2026 Quad with 1,050HP beats all other EV truck out there. If that is what makes you smile and look forward to your drive, who needs all this other stuff. Life is short, smile more. Buy a Rivian

Final count:
Lightning - 1
Silverado - 2
Cyberyuk - 2
Rivian - 4

If not ranked, buy a Rivian

 

[getut]

No. It is absolutely their decision. Don't like it? Buy another vehicle.

My goal is to push back against manufacturers. It has gotten to the point where this tracking crap and enshitification of devices has gotten bad. If no one ever pushes back then this will continue. More people need to be aware of the alternatives and here is my ultimate goal.

Goal: Respect that the owner of any given device is the one ultimately in control in areas where there is no law to force anyones hand. This is true of any connected device. But manufacturers of devices, cars included, have started treating the owners of devices as the thing that needs to be secured against. And again, in every other segment other than CONSUMER connected devices, the security paradigm in use world wide is a zero trust model. That means that the owner decides who, when and where access is given to a thing. I know this lockdown would have to happen no matter what vehicle I choose if it is a newer vehicle. But there is no choice that allows this to happen, meaning hacking your own device is the only way to get that level of security. I do not trust Rivian to have full time access to my vehicle, I do not trust GM, Ford, BMW, or anyone. And here is the final kicker, the real, root cause reason that the OWNERS are now the thing that has to be secured against is the fact that these companies are using their root level control (that they should never have once they are no longer the owner) are used to ARTIFICIALLY cripple devices so that that very same functionality can be sold back to you. I do not accept that. I do not accept that if for example, that if I bought a Rivian R1t dual motor that is software crippled to keep power down that I have to accept that crippling. If I were to find a workaround to enable the 600+ horsepower upgrade without paying for it through Rivian that it is not stealing, it is simply enabling an artificially crippled feature without paying their extortion fee. People HAVE to start pushing back against this crap. They have to start making sure that there are options to lock out manufacturers just like industrial SCADA systems or anything else. Buying a product does not imply trust of the manufacturer and in fact doing so is a very very bad security posture. And ultimately how to lock something down is only for the owner of that thing to decide. Devices that cost less than $20 used to have local web interfaces that can be used for accessing settings and pulling data and giving access in a way that does not require cloud usage. Cloud should be something that can be opted out of in ANY device. I want connectivity and options, but I do not submit to any company to expose them to me via some mechanism that is solely under their control and discression to allow me access and/or to have to ask persmission to access something that exists behind my firewall. People have to start demanding alternative access to these in a way that does not reduce exposed features but does not also require implicit trust of the manufacturer to have more control than the owner. This same reasoning applies to sideloaded apps. I agree many wont work properly, but simply not allowing any at all and no way to test if it does and allowing full blockage of anything, then they are running a walled garden ecosystem. All walled garden ecosystems should have a way out gauarteed by law in my opinion. Companies that do this are reducing our security solely to monetize everything about the experience. No one should blindly accept that. It really is the moden equivalent of buying a house and having the real estate agent refuse to give you the key and saying you must call them to enter and exit everytime and they also have full control over how you decorate and paint your home. It is a ludicrous thought that people just don't fully understand or it would make everyone irate.

Again, you are correct though. Rivian has problems with my wish list, but so does every other vendor. So my goal is to find the least bad option. The fact that Rivian does not encrypt the can bus is a huge factor on why Rivian is still in the running. At least the open-ness allows companies like CommaAI to still be on the table for them while other vendors like GM with the encrypted can bus, there will NO competition for self driving for those cars. This is bad for everyone. This is the future everyone should be railing against and not accepting blindly. That is what I am trying to do while finding the vehicle with the most options for FUTURE hacking and jailbreaking from the manufacturers control that tehy should never have been allowed to have in the first place.

 

[sfvR1S]

TLDR

In other industries it's called paralysis by analysis.

 

[Redline]

OP......

Paragraphs....please.

 

[BaldThunder]

Yeah, I found a lot of Ford dealers do not like working on EVs. Some are better than others. And yes! The ford charger will work with any EV. But with the industry moving to NACS (the tesla port) you'll need to get an AC J-1772 to NACS adapter. But they're not too expensive on amazon.

Gotcha. I can sell my Tesla adapter to pay for the new J-1772 adapter.

Do you find your Rivian charges faster than your MME did?

 

[freshpow]

My goal is to push back against manufacturers. It has gotten to the point where this tracking crap and enshitification of devices has gotten bad. If no one ever pushes back then this will continue. More people need to be aware of the alternatives and here is my ultimate goal.

Goal: Respect that the owner of any given device is the one ultimately in control in areas where there is no law to force anyones hand. This is true of any connected device. But manufacturers of devices, cars included, have started treating the owners of devices as the thing that needs to be secured against. And again, in every other segment other than CONSUMER connected devices, the security paradigm in use world wide is a zero trust model. That means that the owner decides who, when and where access is given to a thing. I know this lockdown would have to happen no matter what vehicle I choose if it is a newer vehicle. But there is no choice that allows this to happen, meaning hacking your own device is the only way to get that level of security. I do not trust Rivian to have full time access to my vehicle, I do not trust GM, Ford, BMW, or anyone. And here is the final kicker, the real, root cause reason that the OWNERS are now the thing that has to be secured against is the fact that these companies are using their root level control (that they should never have once they are no longer the owner) are used to ARTIFICIALLY cripple devices so that that very same functionality can be sold back to you. I do not accept that. I do not accept that if for example, that if I bought a Rivian R1t dual motor that is software crippled to keep power down that I have to accept that crippling. If I were to find a workaround to enable the 600+ horsepower upgrade without paying for it through Rivian that it is not stealing, it is simply enabling an artificially crippled feature without paying their extortion fee. People HAVE to start pushing back against this crap. They have to start making sure that there are options to lock out manufacturers just like industrial SCADA systems or anything else. Buying a product does not imply trust of the manufacturer and in fact doing so is a very very bad security posture. And ultimately how to lock something down is only for the owner of that thing to decide. Devices that cost less than $20 used to have local web interfaces that can be used for accessing settings and pulling data and giving access in a way that does not require cloud usage. Cloud should be something that can be opted out of in ANY device. I want connectivity and options, but I do not submit to any company to expose them to me via some mechanism that is solely under their control and discression to allow me access and/or to have to ask persmission to access something that exists behind my firewall. People have to start demanding alternative access to these in a way that does not reduce exposed features but does not also require implicit trust of the manufacturer to have more control than the owner. This same reasoning applies to sideloaded apps. I agree many wont work properly, but simply not allowing any at all and no way to test if it does and allowing full blockage of anything, then they are running a walled garden ecosystem. All walled garden ecosystems should have a way out gauarteed by law in my opinion. Companies that do this are reducing our security solely to monetize everything about the experience. No one should blindly accept that. It really is the moden equivalent of buying a house and having the real estate agent refuse to give you the key and saying you must call them to enter and exit everytime and they also have full control over how you decorate and paint your home. It is a ludicrous thought that people just don't fully understand or it would make everyone irate.

Again, you are correct though. Rivian has problems with my wish list, but so does every other vendor. So my goal is to find the least bad option. The fact that Rivian does not encrypt the can bus is a huge factor on why Rivian is still in the running. At least the open-ness allows companies like CommaAI to still be on the table for them while other vendors like GM with the encrypted can bus, there will NO competition for self driving for those cars. This is bad for everyone. This is the future everyone should be railing against and not accepting blindly. That is what I am trying to do while finding the vehicle with the most options for FUTURE hacking and jailbreaking from the manufacturers control that tehy should never have been allowed to have in the first place.

 

[Yota2R1T]

My goal is to push back against manufacturers. It has gotten to the point where this tracking crap and enshitification of devices has gotten bad. If no one ever pushes back then this will continue. More people need to be aware of the alternatives and here is my ultimate goal.

Goal: Respect that the owner of any given device is the one ultimately in control in areas where there is no law to force anyones hand. This is true of any connected device. But manufacturers of devices, cars included, have started treating the owners of devices as the thing that needs to be secured against. And again, in every other segment other than CONSUMER connected devices, the security paradigm in use world wide is a zero trust model. That means that the owner decides who, when and where access is given to a thing. I know this lockdown would have to happen no matter what vehicle I choose if it is a newer vehicle. But there is no choice that allows this to happen, meaning hacking your own device is the only way to get that level of security. I do not trust Rivian to have full time access to my vehicle, I do not trust GM, Ford, BMW, or anyone. And here is the final kicker, the real, root cause reason that the OWNERS are now the thing that has to be secured against is the fact that these companies are using their root level control (that they should never have once they are no longer the owner) are used to ARTIFICIALLY cripple devices so that that very same functionality can be sold back to you. I do not accept that. I do not accept that if for example, that if I bought a Rivian R1t dual motor that is software crippled to keep power down that I have to accept that crippling. If I were to find a workaround to enable the 600+ horsepower upgrade without paying for it through Rivian that it is not stealing, it is simply enabling an artificially crippled feature without paying their extortion fee. People HAVE to start pushing back against this crap. They have to start making sure that there are options to lock out manufacturers just like industrial SCADA systems or anything else. Buying a product does not imply trust of the manufacturer and in fact doing so is a very very bad security posture. And ultimately how to lock something down is only for the owner of that thing to decide. Devices that cost less than $20 used to have local web interfaces that can be used for accessing settings and pulling data and giving access in a way that does not require cloud usage. Cloud should be something that can be opted out of in ANY device. I want connectivity and options, but I do not submit to any company to expose them to me via some mechanism that is solely under their control and discression to allow me access and/or to have to ask persmission to access something that exists behind my firewall. People have to start demanding alternative access to these in a way that does not reduce exposed features but does not also require implicit trust of the manufacturer to have more control than the owner. This same reasoning applies to sideloaded apps. I agree many wont work properly, but simply not allowing any at all and no way to test if it does and allowing full blockage of anything, then they are running a walled garden ecosystem. All walled garden ecosystems should have a way out gauarteed by law in my opinion. Companies that do this are reducing our security solely to monetize everything about the experience. No one should blindly accept that. It really is the moden equivalent of buying a house and having the real estate agent refuse to give you the key and saying you must call them to enter and exit everytime and they also have full control over how you decorate and paint your home. It is a ludicrous thought that people just don't fully understand or it would make everyone irate.

Again, you are correct though. Rivian has problems with my wish list, but so does every other vendor. So my goal is to find the least bad option. The fact that Rivian does not encrypt the can bus is a huge factor on why Rivian is still in the running. At least the open-ness allows companies like CommaAI to still be on the table for them while other vendors like GM with the encrypted can bus, there will NO competition for self driving for those cars. This is bad for everyone. This is the future everyone should be railing against and not accepting blindly. That is what I am trying to do while finding the vehicle with the most options for FUTURE hacking and jailbreaking from the manufacturers control that tehy should never have been allowed to have in the first place.

Just buy an R1T and chill my man. You'll love it and those thoughts of pushing back against the scary march of enshitification will melt from your mind as you blast through the landscape.
Sheer driving pleasure, think of it!

 

[mpshizzle]

Gotcha. I can sell my Tesla adapter to pay for the new J-1772 adapter.

Do you find your Rivian charges faster than your MME did?

You'll need 2 adapters. One for AC charging. One for DC fast charging. And yes! Absolutely. My '21 Mach E would do 150 kw for a minute or two then hang out at 100. With the newer software my R1 Will stay pretty close to 200kw all the way to 50-60%

 

[Eury]

Gotcha. I can sell my Tesla adapter to pay for the new J-1772 adapter.

Do you find your Rivian charges faster than your MME did?

Rivians with a NACS port like you'd buy today all come with the J1772 adapter. I'd still buy another one just so you have one you can leave on the charger full time and have another in the truck, but it'll be there under the hood when you pick it up. If you want to use fast chargers that are the CCS standard like your Mach-E you'll need to buy a NACS to CCS adapter. I have the one from A2Z and it is great.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

I think he meant 60% of normal range. (60% of EPA range, if you drive like that.) It seems you agree with his 60% estimate. I think 80% is more reasonable, unless you live in the great white north.

Ah, I see. Sixty percent left, so 40% loss.

I live in Central Ohio and we’ve had some really frigid weather this winter (single digits with negative windchills). It definitely cut my range down to the point where I had to charge a day or two earlier than usual. I drive over 40 miles roundtrip a day.

 

[Alan in Tempe]

...Or are you simply ignoring the fact that you chose a vehicle that weighs over 7k pounds? Tires are like pencil erasers. The harder you press down and rub, the faster it wears out.

Tires are pretty fascinating. For a given tire pressure, that is exactly how hard the vehicle will be pushing down on every square inch of the tire where it contacts the road. The heavier the vehicle at that pressure, the bigger the area of the tire touching the road. However, with a heavier vehicle, all else being equal, each part of the tread will spend more time on the road per distance traveled (the patch area is larger, so more of the tire per unit time is in contact, while the tire turns at the same rate). That is, a heavier vehicle will get less total tread life because each part of the tread will have longer "time" in contact with the road per tire rotation. So, it is less about how hard you press down, and more about a reduced tread life due to equal tread wear per square inch of tread while in contact with the road. It is the greater contact time per mile that wears down the rubber more quickly. Increased momentum and tire stress from greater weight while cornering or breaking or accelerating is pretty much distributed over a larger total tread patch equalizing that pretty much as well. Note, however, the greater acceleration is its own source of accelerated tire wear in any vehicle, and the Rivian's have that readily available.

 

[Alan in Tempe]

My goal is to push back against manufacturers. It has gotten to the point where this tracking crap and enshitification of devices has gotten bad. If no one ever pushes back then this will continue. More people need to be aware of the alternatives and here is my ultimate goal.

Allow me to play Devil's advocate. Note that I understand clearly your concerns and share most of them. I held a CISSP and worked in information security with comparmented clearances before retirement a long time ago.

Society and its laws when dealing with intellectual property (IP) are very complex, and philosophy does not deal clearly with issues of fairness and correctness in these areas. Most of your stated issues are deeply involved with IP.

When a company sells you a software license to use their IP (software), all you own is the right to use that SW with whatever restrictions placed in the license that can be held up in court. If the software comes with a free trial period that requires payment to unlock the SW for use after the free trial, it is not your right, legally or morally, to rearraign the bits or otherwise fool the SW to give you unlimited access to that SW. This is part of the social and legal contract which helps provide access to income to the SW developer/seller, restricting ease of theft of that IP. There is no significant difference with requiring additional payments to unlock additional features that are already "inside" the trial SW. The cryptography the company uses to lock/unlock trial time and feature set makes it easier/cheaper for the company to do quality control and version management, theoretically reducing customer costs and increasing company profits.

A great deal of your issues with EVs and connected devices ignores the kind of issues described above, and often, these exact issues. So long as there is licensed IP included (software, patents, copyrights, trademarks, etc.), the consumer is often only leasing and not owning those parts the product. So, might your issue really be with how badly society handles IP in general?

Moving on to tracking and privacy, I fundamentally agree with your resistance to how the car companies operate, but even here, I find the core problem is with our (the US) society's screwed up lack of legal protections for privacy. Most of the rest of the developed world have far greater protections for individual privacy rights. I worked closely on a project that involved the Canadian ministry for privacy and learned a lot about their laws (which are in large part shared with most of Europe) and initially felt they were grossly abusive to businesses, but with the emergence of massive social media and connected vehicles and such since, I now think they did not go far enough. However, I put the blame on government, and much less on businesses that rightfully seek legal methods to maximize profits that are not clearly ethically wrong. While I agree tracking and such do infringe on legitimate privacy needs, society has not yet made those needs clear and generally accepted. This is a very legitimate area of government to mediate, and not so much individual businesses. NO, I do not have much hope our government will rise to the challenge in my remaining lifetime.

 

[TTedP]

An AI could easily answer the OP, tempted to ask one.

OP, use AI? After that rant?? That was a good one.

OP......

Paragraphs....please.

nah, he's right on type.

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