Am I the only one who thinks anything less than 400mi of range is legacy at this point?

[2kwik4u]

Living in the northeast, cold climate, I won't buy an EV with less than 400 miles of range at this point. I just think it's too problematic especially in cold and especially as the car (batteries) age. Long drives in winter you get 30-50% range degradation, it's 2026, how is it that all batt packs aren't at least 400miles+?

I have 305mi "normal" range and live in Buffalo. Even with winter road trips I've yet to find it to be a problem.

Only time I've ever wanted more range was when I'm towing. I've avoided a few trips I would have taken if I had an ICE powered tow vehicle.

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[macb00kemdanno]

All good points. Couple things, I am assuming not good conditions, thus it's not like you get 400+ miles ever, beceause of weather. Also, charging speed would help for sure, but as you go on long road trips, if you are in rural areas, charging spots aren't exactly plentiful. They are fine, but may be sub optimal if range is compromised.

I was in rural, bumf**k North Carolina (actually, Whiteville, NC) yesterday on a quick trip down to the beach. Even they had 12 Superchargers behind a Smithfield's BBQ.

Routing software, battery technology, and charging technology have advanced to the point where I don't even worry anymore. I put my destination in the navigation, it shows me where to go and where my charging stops are along the way, and I go about my business. I don't even have to think about it.

I think that a lot of people are just really overthinking this.

I remember buying my 2018 Model 3, which had 310 mile epa range and 400V charging speed. I think it cost somewhere in the low $50Ks.

8 years later, today, I’d argue it’d be hard to find a new EV with 300+ miles range and 400V charging that costs in the low $50Ks.

8 years later, why aren’t EVs cheaper for the core EV specs?

Chevy Equinox EV (300+ miles, $35,000)
Tesla Model 3 (321 miles, $37,000)
Tesla Model Y (321 miles, $40,000)
Hyundai Ioniq 5 SE (318 miles, $37,000)
Kia EV6 Light Long Range (319 miles, $46,000)

 

[DuoRivians]

I was in rural, bumf**k North Carolina (actually, Whiteville, NC) yesterday on a quick trip down to the beach. Even they had 12 Superchargers behind a Smithfield's BBQ.

Routing software, battery technology, and charging technology have advanced to the point where I don't even worry anymore. I put my destination in the navigation, it shows me where to go and where my charging stops are along the way, and I go about my business. I don't even have to think about it.

I think that a lot of people are just really overthinking this.



Chevy Equinox EV (300+ miles, $35,000)
Tesla Model 3 (321 miles, $37,000)
Tesla Model Y (321 miles, $40,000)
Hyundai Ioniq 5 SE (318 miles, $37,000)
Kia EV 6 Light LR (319 miles, $46,000)

Good examples of cheaper EVs thanks. These weren’t top of mind to me.

That said, these examples make the R2 seem quite expensive now…

 

[renderpaz]

To answer the OP question:

You aren't but perhaps you should be: Marques says it best:

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Living in the northeast, cold climate, I won't buy an EV with less than 400 miles of range at this point. I just think it's too problematic especially in cold and especially as the car (batteries) age. Long drives in winter you get 30-50% range degradation, it's 2026, how is it that all batt packs aren't at least 400miles+?

The only one in a country that does not allow Chinese brands to sell their cars, so the brands already here can remain uncompetitive and protect/grow their profits. 400 miles at prices this market is accustomed to, with current policies... just not going to happen. Average new car sold in 2025 was just over $50k. Cars are already getting too expensive. Plus, majority of Americans commute around 40~60 miles per day. Do we really need 400-mile cars that cost even more when that range is mostly not needed? We need more charging infrastructure and better charging speeds. Not bigger, more expensive "tanks".

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Good examples of cheaper EVs thanks. These weren’t top of mind to me.

That said, these examples make the R2 seem quite expensive now…

That’s been my point about the R2. It’s not competitively priced. I guess they are hoping there is enough pent up demand for a Rivian that people will pay $20k more than for a Tesla.

 

[Budman]

Yes and no.

I live in MN and venture deep into the northwoods in winter a lot and also do camping trips deep into the wilderness out west. I have a max pack R1T with >400 miles range and am very happy I do.

We have a R2 on order as a second vehicle and I am totally ok with the 330 mile range for that vehicle. Most, people would be fine with 330 miles, even in MN, so long as you don’t venture really far into the boondocks. It gets -20F here and I’m not worried about using to R2 in winter here.

I will never get a vehicle with a LFP battery pack though.

 

[blipit]

Chevy Equinox EV (300+ miles, $35,000)
Tesla Model 3 (321 miles, $37,000)
Tesla Model Y (321 miles, $40,000)
Hyundai Ioniq 5 SE (318 miles, $37,000)
Kia EV6 Light Long Range (319 miles, $46,000)

Nissan Leaf now being the least expensive with 300+ mile range.

2026 Nissan Leaf (303 miles, $29,990)

 

[ndmiller]

Living in the northeast, cold climate, I won't buy an EV with less than 400 miles of range at this point. I just think it's too problematic especially in cold and especially as the car (batteries) age. Long drives in winter you get 30-50% range degradation, it's 2026, how is it that all batt packs aren't at least 400miles+?

No to your original question, that's range anxiety talking. For road trips 4-5 hours is about the length of driving before a stop. Whether 350 (current) or 400, no practical difference for me. With fast charging everywhere range isn't a decision maker anymore when it comes to roadtrips.

On the subject of driving in the cold, preheat the car and battery for a penalty but not even 30%. When I preheat for work in winter my 251 70% becomes 240 or so. If I don't the battery is 32F and every battery at that temperature is crappy.

 

[DuoRivians]

Nissan Leaf now being the least expensive with 300+ mile range.

2026 Nissan Leaf (303 miles, $29,990)

This is amazing! Seriously. A real attempt to bring EVs to everyone.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Nissan Leaf now being the least expensive with 300+ mile range.

2026 Nissan Leaf (303 miles, $29,990)

Yeah. I forgot about that one.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Living in the northeast, cold climate, I won't buy an EV with less than 400 miles of range at this point. I just think it's too problematic especially in cold and especially as the car (batteries) age. Long drives in winter you get 30-50% range degradation, it's 2026, how is it that all batt packs aren't at least 400miles+?

The battery is arguably the most expensive component in an EV. Manufacturers have to make trade offs between energy density, and charging performance in order to achieve certain price targets.

With incentives all but eliminated, now automakers have to decide, is a customer willing to pay that high MSRP without the incentive, or do they need to de-content a vehicle to bring the cost down to appeal to the customer?

The reason Chinese EV's are able to achieve "The Big Three" Low cost, High C-rate, and Energy density for range, is because they don't have to pay to scale up, build factories, etc because the state takes on that initial burden, making the overhead on each vehicle sold, ridiculously low. At least for now.

Lucid and Porsche are decent examples of what can be achieved with smaller packs, and efficient motors. The problem is, in cold weather, their range and efficiencies fall flat, and you really want an energy dense high kWh pack, something the Brute Force 200+kWh GM strategy excels at.

Unless things change in the next little bit, 400 mile packs as standard are still a ways out.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

The battery is arguably the most expensive component in an EV. Manufacturers have to make trade offs between energy density, and charging performance in order to achieve certain price targets.

With incentives all but eliminated, now automakers have to decide, is a customer willing to pay that high MSRP without the incentive, or do they need to de-content a vehicle to bring the cost down to appeal to the customer?

The reason Chinese EV's are able to achieve "The Big Three" Low cost, High C-rate, and Energy density for range, is because they don't have to pay to scale up, build factories, etc because the state takes on that initial burden, making the overhead on each vehicle sold, ridiculously low. At least for now.

Lucid and Porsche are decent examples of what can be achieved with smaller packs, and efficient motors. The problem is, in cold weather, their range and efficiencies fall flat, and you really want an energy dense high kWh pack, something the Brute Force 200+kWh GM strategy excels at.

Unless things change in the next little bit, 400 mile packs as standard are still a ways out.

60% supposedly, of total manufacturing cost per car. And the Chinese govt. essentially have a stake in all of them. How many Americans would support the idea of more examples of "Government Motors"? We're more likely to recoil from the idea immediately than to ponder for a few seconds. And as confirmed by Ford CEO and RJ, who both have sampled a particular Chinese car and studied that industry, a lot of the cost savings are from a very high degree of vertical integration.

 

[KRG]

Everyone has different needs so I understand thinking that.

I personally don’t care about range too much since I live downtown, work mostly remote, and have a charger at home. AND I don’t like long roadtrips. Short weekend trips are fun but I’ve never felt I needed more than 300ish miles of range for those.

 

[TTedP]

Long drives in winter you get 30-50% range degradation

Where do guys come up with this stuff? I am on my 2nd R1 in the northeast and even this winter with many days in the teens, running between NJ-PA-VA I can consistently get 200-225 miles on a large pack with AT tires (rated for 289) and some buffer to spare.

Yes, on loooong road trips, like 5 states away type road trips, it can get annoying having to make an extra stop or two but the northeast? It's one of the most dense areas for charging options. I honestly don't even think about it anymore.

Maybe if we're talking LFP vs NMC then yeah, I wouldn't buy a LFP pack in a Rivian. Stick with Tesla or something else.

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