"I would never want to be stuck waiting for an EV to charge"

[Ingo B]

I do not miss gas stations AT ALL.

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[antimatter]

I had a couple friends that bought a first generation Leaf and had all kinds of trouble with it in the Minnesota winter. Since then, EVs have been roundly dismissed as unreliable and having too short a range for cold conditions. My other friend is a big fan of 'Hoovie's Garage', and the episode where he failed to tow an antique car really cemented his idea that EVs have short range and will leave you stranded. It's going to take a lot for America to broadly adopt EVs, because there is a ton of popular culture that dismisses them as toys that require hours to charge.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

I had a couple friends that bought a first generation Leaf and had all kinds of trouble with it in the Minnesota winter. Since then, EVs have been roundly dismissed as unreliable and having too short a range for cold conditions. My other friend is a big fan of 'Hoovie's Garage', and the episode where he failed to tow an antique car really cemented his idea that EVs have short range and will leave you stranded. It's going to take a lot for America to broadly adopt EVs, because there is a ton of popular culture that dismisses them as toys that require hours to charge.

It’s true. Lots of old information still floating around out there. Charging times are longer than filling up, colder weather does hurt range, as does towing, but things are improving year by year. You also don’t have to run your EV down to almost zero and then spend an hour charging to 100%. That isn’t even recommended. Just stop for 10-15 minutes and move on. As long as there’s charging at your destination: home, a hotel, a cabin (with a travel charger), etc. you should be fine.

Changing one’s mindset is the most difficult thing involved.

 

[Joules Burn]

We have done multiple road trips from central California to Arizona and Wyoming. Our destination times have not varied much with our ICE trips. You have to eat, pee, and walk about to prevent deep vein thrombosis….

A friend boasted he could drive 450 miles straight without stopping in his diesel pickup. His wife reminded him that he needed a two hour nap when he got there.

Realistically, there has been little difference between my 800 volt Kia and the 400 volt Rivian.

 

[mikehmb]

We have done multiple road trips from central California to Arizona and Wyoming. Our destination times have not varied much with our ICE trips. You have to eat, pee, and walk about to prevent deep vein thrombosis….

A friend boasted he could drive 450 miles straight without stopping in his diesel pickup. His wife reminded him that he needed a two hour nap when he got there.

Realistically, there has been little difference between my 800 volt Kia and the 400 volt Rivian.

I had this exact conversation with a coworker today. Said "I need to run down and charge my truck" since I was a doofus and ran it low before heading in today. She wondered how that affected my ability to be spontaneous. Led to a good discussion about what driving really is.

"If it's an emergency and I need to get to my mom's place 300 miles away asap, I'lll run to the SC down the street, spend 30 minutes charging, grab snacks at the store, and go"

... followed by "are you one of those people that doesn't let their kids pee for 6 hours? Because I'm not. We stop every 3 hours worst-case anyway, so we just plan those around charging"

Her questions came from a genuine place of curiosity and it reminded me that there's still a LOT of education required, even for smart people who live in tech-forward places like the Bay Area.

 

[Nixapatfan]

The problem with EVs is the planning you have to do before you set off on your journey. Even if there is a charger everywhere you park, you still have to mess around with a bunch of apps and settings to charge it.

That is why my wife rarely ever drives the Rivian she has no desire to check how far each trip is and how much charge is in the truck even for short around town errands.

It's going to take a long while before the masses convert.

I still prefer my ice car and ice motorcycle for spirited driving. There is room for both. There is something to be said about lighter weight and the flick ability that comes with it and the engine noises and shifting gears do make it more engaging to drive.

 

[CarGuyCarl]

Agreed, there is definitely room for both. Also depends on how much time and days you have. All that can make EVs a little tough on long and remote trips.

Can't be beat for local use though assuming you can charge at home.

 

[schwartz83]

300 miles of range is just about right for me. I can easily drive from Salem to Shoreline (north of Seattle) without stopping to charge, and that's all I need. I installed a 50amp outlet at my son's house the first time I visited driving Arty just so I could charge overnight and drive home.

I find 300 miles good too.

 

[schwartz83]

The problem with EVs is the planning you have to do before you set off on your journey. Even if there is a charger everywhere you park, you still have to mess around with a bunch of apps and settings to charge it.

That is why my wife rarely ever drives the Rivian she has no desire to check how far each trip is and how much charge is in the truck even for short around town errands.

It's going to take a long while before the masses convert.

I still prefer my ice car and ice motorcycle for spirited driving. There is room for both. There is something to be said about lighter weight and the flick ability that comes with it and the engine noises and shifting gears do make it more engaging to drive.
[/QUOTE

I've found the amount of planning required is much less than it used to be. The in vehicle navigation will route you to chargers and tell you how much to charge to get you to the next charger. Most chargers will take a credit card so less need for apps. The only charging app I use regularly is the Tesla app so I can get a discount on the rate.

I agree there is room for both ICE and EV. If I towed much I'd definitely have an ICE. And even with the improvements with navigation routing you to chargers and paying for charging it can be a bit much for those new to EVs. I'd love to see us get to universal plug and charge.

 

[RedScare]

Back in 1979, when I was in college, I borrowed my roommate's car to visit my girlfriend in another city. I didn't notice the fuel level, but when I arrived the tank was nearly empty. Some of you may remember 1979 as another year when Iranian troubles caused a gas shortage. In this small town, no gas stations were open after dark. I slept in the car until 8 am so that I could purchase overpriced gas. I doubt a 20 minute wait for an EV to charge will match my wait for gas that day.

 

[VoodooRivian]

IYKYK

 

[jemenake]

A friend boasted he could drive 450 miles straight without stopping in his diesel pickup. His wife reminded him that he needed a two hour nap when he got there.

I tell people “It goes over 300 miles without needing to stop for a recharge… which is a lot further than my butt can”.

 

[strykerwsu]

My favorite "blow your mind" topic. I bet people I spend less time waiting to charge in a year then they do putting in gas. On average with 2 decent trips a gas vehicle likely spends about 600+ minutes a year at gas station. With no spent time at home charging that allows 20, 30 minute L3 charge sessions.

 

[SwampNut]

I found my post from another forum, where I decided to actually do the math on time fueling, about a year ago...


There are many sources for data, AI helps a bit but it's all over the map. Also day to day stops are shorter than road trip stops. EVs don't have day to day stops, they leave the house full every day. They just take longer per stop on a road trip, mostly.

ICE fueling time statistics vary from 7-11 minutes on average:

• Driving time (1-3 minutes, depending on location and diversion from a planned route, but can be much longer in rural areas.
• Fueling time (2-4 minutes, depending on tank size and pump speed, typically 8-12 gallons at 2-3 gallons per minute).
• Payment (30 seconds to 1 minute, faster with credit card at pump, slower if paying inside).
• Additional activities like restroom breaks, grabbing snacks, or stretching, which often extend stops to 7-10 minutes, as drivers use fuel stops for quick breaks.

The average number of fuelings per year is 40-55, and hard to pin down. Most people refuel every 7-12 days. Why don't we just call it 40 here, for the most conservative comparison? Oddly and amusingly I found that there are good statistic for Poland, with the average there being 25 per year. Makes sense, much more public transportation.

There are 39 million refuelings per DAY, which is shocking to me. I think this includes commercial though. In any case that's a ridiculous cost to society and productivity for the country.

40 x 9 minutes =360 minutes per year, or six fucking hours!

EV charge numbers are harder to nail down because you can have a piece of shit like a Leaf that charges super slow, or a Lucid that charges 5-7 times faster. I concentrated on the cars you'd take on a road trip, so Hyundai, Tesla, Lucid, etc. Not a Bolt or Leaf with short range and slow charging, that people rarely take on trips. This gives us 12-20 minutes, which mirrors my Tesla experience. So let's call it 16.

How many road trips do you take? The average American does only 2-3 per year. I truly expected double that. This is counting all trips over 100 miles, so many of them wouldn't need to charge at all. Let's count two trips that necessitate a public charge.

This is what AI says:
Given the lack of precise data isolating 200+ mile trips, a conservative estimate based on these sources suggests the average American takes 1 to 2 road trips over 200 miles per year. This accounts for the popularity of summer road trips (often 250–500 miles) and occasional longer vacations, with many Americans taking at least one such trip annually, though frequency varies by region, income, and lifestyle.

Of course, you may have to charge multiple times and in both directions. But you also can often charge at your destination (hotels, homes). The average miles per year is 800, but with a wide swing of 400-1200, and 25% of people NEVER do it. Crazy. My average road trip is 300-800, and about four times a year, maybe more.

So again using the modern road-trip-worthy cars, we get this:
For 800 miles of road trips annually (over 200 miles per trip):

• Hyundai Ioniq 5: ~5–6 charging stops, due to its ~210-mile real-world range and ~147-mile usable range per cycle.
• Tesla Model Y: ~4–5 stops, with a ~260-mile range and ~182-mile usable range, aided by efficient Supercharger access.
• Lucid Air: ~3–4 stops, thanks to its ~350-mile range and ~245-mile usable range, the best among the three.

Let's take the high side, 6.

6 x 16 minutes =96 minutes

Every year, gasholes waste over four hours more of their lives at a gas station.

Lots of people will take issues with my numbers. I did my best to have two different AIs confirm them. But let's do this...

40 x 5 minutes =200 minutes
10 x 20 minutes =200 minutes

Pushed to times that don't make sense (no fucking way are you doing the entire fuel stop from drive to drive in five minutes), the worst case is break even. Well, not in your bank account.

My personal numbers are ludicrously above average for all of it, so I guess, worthless.

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