In 4th year of waiting ... beginning to question if the wait is worth it

[the long way downunder]

I see no point in quitting an R1 order, nor is there even the option to buy another pickup EV – orders placed today are all stretching out beyond '23.

I ordered each of the EVs on their respective "day one" reveals. I remember this 2018 email looking forward to 2020 and the 180kWh pack being available at launch:

I'm told my R1T LE will be built in "Jan-Feb" (as of Dec '21) but a recent email from the guide suggests Feb is now March-April, by which time, I may as well wait for the max pack. There's been no option to order the Max Pack for the T LE, yet, but I don't see why that couldn't change once the max pack exists. I also have an R1S order, so Mr Rivian can juggle my "number in line at the deli" and I'll find out about my options next week.

As GM and Ford deliver their EV pickups, Rivian will see their pre-orders thin out. Rivian also received an influx of pre-orders as part of the IPO DSP. I imagine there's been attrition there, too.

I already bought an F-150 Hybrid in 2021 simply because I ordered it in 2020 and it got built, but also in part because the R1T was "expected" in '21 but I had no reason to expect it would happen.

I'll wait till Rivian says they're ready to build one for me and decide at that time whether I want the vehicle.

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[SoCal Rob]

I can honestly say I never expected to see Rivian manufacturing compared to some teens flipping burgers at a fast food joint ?.

If I waited three years for my animal-style fries, I'd be pretty frustrated with them as well.

I’m just trying to point out that even when making something as simple as burgers, fries, and drinks, customers aren’t entitled to strict FIFO production if the people making stuff determine that there is a reason not to.

 

[mgc0216]

I'm told my R1T LE will be built in "Jan-Feb" (as of Dec '21) but a recent email from the guide suggests Feb is now March-April, by which time.

Can you share the contents of that email?

 

[the long way downunder]

Can you share the contents of that email?

Nothing else to share till I production updates next week (and I'm not being asked to withhold anything, there's just nothing known, at least by me) and the last thing I want anyone to do is start assuming delays or seeding a baseless rumor for the EV bloggers to turn into click bait sensational videos based on no facts. : )

As of Nov-Dec '21 I have an email from Rivian <[email protected]> saying Jan-Feb, but in general chit-chat about options and delivery with the guide, he suggested the date has changed.

I expressed that I was nonplussed and asked that he verify. Given that I have a "day one" pre-order which has slipped from '20 to '21 to Q3 to Nov to Dec to Jan-Feb, at what point do we agree the "launch edition" no longer holds the cachet, nor the production line efficiency that might have been expected in 2018 thru 2020?

A delay into March-April would mean I'd want to wait for the 180 kWh which was previously offered as "available at launch" then withdrawn, so it should be available in the Launch Edition, once they can build the Max Pack at all. I'd rather wait till Rivian sorts out their battery supplier and QA's the bigger pack. Who knows – given the competition is both higher spec and higher dollar, I imagine Rivian's product management people are rejigging spreadsheets and reformatting their revenue projections for the first 50K+ units they build.

Given the technology advances by CATL, BYD and Tesla, all building vehicles with LFP and more range with less degradation, Rivian has to adapt – they can't sell a 2018 spec vehicle in 2022. Charge rate has to go up from 210 to more like 350kW and there has to be area under the curve from 20% to 80%, not just 5% to 15%. The Max Pack could (should … must …) arrive as LFP chemistry in blade packs with no degradation, no thermal runaway, and a fat charge curve. I'm an eternal optimist. : )

 

[bd5400]

A delay into March-April would mean I'd want to wait for the 180 kWh which was previously offered as "available at launch" then withdrawn, so it should be available in the Launch Edition, once they can build the Max Pack at all.

The Launch Edition has never been configurable with the Max Pack and there is no indication that Rivian will, at any point, allow Launch Edition reservation holders to upgrade to the Max Pack. If you wanted Max Pack, you had to order Adventure or Explore, and there are a lot of people who passed up on the Launch Edition for that reason.

Based on Rivian's timeline, the Launch Edition will not overlap with Max Pack production anyway. No Max Packs until 2023 and Launch Editions should finish production in 2022.

 

[paariv]

I'm told my R1T LE will be built in "Jan-Feb" (as of Dec '21) but a recent email from the guide suggests Feb is now March-April, by which time, I may as well wait for the max pack. There's been no option to order the Max Pack for the T LE, yet, but I don't see why that couldn't change once the max pack exists.

Please do this math for me. A 1-2 month delay somehow means Rivian is going to upend its policies, go back on all of their recent promises, and give you a max pack R1T - which doesn’t exist yet even in test form - as an LE vehicle even though max packs are more than a year out for everyone else?

 

[hed]

You know why I go to sites dedicated to upcoming vehicles or products I might have an interest in?

Because that's the first place I am almost guaranteed to see real world pictures and/or reactions. In fact, I would argue that is why a fair number of people go to these type of forums in the first place.

I still contend that if Rivian is getting out any decent amounts of RT1s to non-affiliated customers the best chance to see it first would be on a site like this one.

Does anyone really think there will be even 200 hundred non employee deliveries without a post on here?

 

[GaryL]

Got to admit I learned a new word " nonplussed". Never know what you will learn here, my day is complete?

 

[Craigins]

Five guys > In-N-out

Sounds like something NSFW.

 

[SeaGeo]

Sounds like something NSFW.

Legitimately laughing right now over this.

 

[E.S.]

Hell I’d settle for an electric Nissan or Toyota pickup but they don’t exist….

Nissan has the Leaf. I wouldn't recommend anything EV from them based on the Leaf experiences. Toyota (supposedly) announced their EV Tacoma, but we wont see those for a few.

Five guys > In-N-out

What? You're not wrong. 5 Guys is the SHIZNET!

 

[ja_kub_sz]

@the long way downunder

I'm in a similar position.

11/27/18 R1T Max Pack preorder (have multiple orders in)

Rivian CS called to see if I wanted to downgrade to a Large Pack to get 2022 delivery (they called January 10th). I told them yes, but when in 2022 will I see delivery? If I'm Q4 2022 for a large pack, I'll wait till Q1 2023 for a Max Pack since that is what I originally wanted.

Rivian CS told me they would call me back at the end of January, roughly two weeks, to confirm which quarter I could expect 2022 delivery of my Large Pack.

Still haven't heard anything, but did notice my configuration for my R1T was changed to a Large Pack with AT 20" wheels.

Obviously Rivian CS made the changes, but they have yet to tell me when the R1T will arrive, which was the only stipulation I had in making the change.

I specifically said if it's 6 months or less difference waiting for my R1T Max vs R1T Large then I don't want to switch. But again Rivian being Rivian, they changed my order and when I inquired about it they gave me the blanketed response "Thank you for your support! Your R1T configurator will have a delivery window update coming soon." ETA unknown?

Again, all of this is just a long "unplussed" slog, but what option do I (we) have other then canceling?

Also I'm pretty certain a lot of your battery and tech concerns will be adjusted on the fly once a bulk of the 2022 deliveries are underway. Once R1S deliveries start up and Rivian starts taking orders (making available in configuration) their 105kWh models, then we'll see a price adjustment across the board (IMO).

Until then... more waiting... and waiting... and waiting.

 

[the long way downunder]

@the long way downunder

I'm in a similar position.

11/27/18 R1T Max Pack preorder (have multiple orders in)

Still haven't heard anything, but did notice my configuration for my R1T was changed to a Large Pack with AT 20" wheels.

Obviously Rivian CS made the changes, but they have yet to tell me when the R1T will arrive, which was the only stipulation I had in making the change.

Again, all of this is just a long "unplussed" slog, but what option do I (we) have other then canceling?

Also I'm pretty certain a lot of your battery and tech concerns will be adjusted on the fly once a bulk of the 2022 deliveries are underway. Once R1S deliveries start up and Rivian starts taking orders (making available in configuration) their 105kWh models, then we'll see a price adjustment across the board (IMO).

We're all in the dark till there's a vin. I noticed the swap to 20" wheels. I asked about it but didn't get a response (I'd forgotten to follow up.) I was fine with the 21s for range and I'd get a second set for off-road. When I asked about the wheels, I was told by the guide that they're forged, but he didn't know the difference between forged and rotary forged and didn't follow up on that, either. I decided it wasn't a deal breaker either way. Thinking about it, I might ask them to go back to the 21s because the tires on the 20s aren't useful off-road (as TFL and DeMuro demonstrated, these are close-blocked all-terrains, nowhere near the performance of a Patagonia or a K02.) Thanks for the reminder! : )

Tesla has never improved range or charging with OTA. They say they have and many owners post about upgrades, but in my experience, claimed upgrades were negligible if at all, especially claims of improving cold weather performance. I don't expect Rivian has any way to improve performance (charge curve or range) unless their current system is simply lacking refinement or has known weaknesses causing higher Wh/mi. The air drag and curb weight cannot be improved by "coding." : ) For me, even 180kWh isn't enough.

My optimistic outlook is that Rivian is a bunch of very smart kids who know they can't bring 2018 "cells in a box" to market in 2020 – Munro will tear it down and in his report, the reprisal of obsolete technology will damage Rivian.

Far better for them to do the software and hardware work for the battery and motor now before delivering tens of thousands of units to a population of increasingly unhappy campers.

The Lightning and Silverado are tough competitors with more features, higher specs and a wider range of models and prices from known (and to some, trusted) brands which are simply not going out of business and don't need 5 years to build out a service network.

Far better to do what they're doing: slow pedaling production, refining their assembly line, delivering to early adopters, no quality fails, no reliability fails, play a clean game, build the factory, get an OEM for the 180kWh, update the 135 kWh, and once demand slows for the large and mega, be quick to offer a "hose out" R1T with the option of a 100 kWh (any smaller battery becomes a sales and logistics fail, as Tesla found in the Model S.)

 

[the long way downunder]

You know why I go to sites dedicated to upcoming vehicles or products I might have an interest in?

Because that's the first place I am almost guaranteed to see real world pictures and/or reactions. In fact, I would argue that is why a fair number of people go to these type of forums in the first place.

I still contend that if Rivian is getting out any decent amounts of RT1s to non-affiliated customers the best chance to see it first would be on a site like this one.

Does anyone really think there will be even 200 hundred non employee deliveries without a post on here?

Good point – I would expect there to be more "got mine!" posts here (or somewhere?)
One thing I notice is Rivian has some sort of owner's site which becomes accessible when you take delivery. I imagine that becomes a place to share experiences without having to deal with the "signal to noise ratio" of a public forum. But I would expect more presence on social media even if it was just a handful of new owners.
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/rivianr1t/

 

[SeaGeo]

Tesla has never improved range or charging with OTA.

Polestar has definitely improved their charging curve, power delivery, and I *think* range on the P2. To the point that the P2 was low on my lost of EVs when released, and now is one of the best EVs on the market for driving enthusiats. VW has improved the curve of the ID.3 and (with v3.0) the big pack ID.4. Ford has... addressed their asanine curve above 80%.

Improvements happen.

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