RJ's commitments on Gen 2 R1 Autonomous Driving: L2 this year (2026), L3 next year (2027)

[godfodder0901]

If what RJ means by hands-off, eyes-on, point2point for Gen 2 R1 is a Tesla FSD, camera-only style monthly subscription for fatal accidents and debilitating injuries, nah, hard pass. You are going to have to demonstrate real-world reliability in a host of adverse driving conditions in complex environments and/or the vehicle consistently and correctly recognizing it's own limitations and refusing to engage before I bite, and even then, I doubt I 'd pay much for it unless and until I am too old and feeble to drive myself.

Rivian has never been, or even advocated for, vision only.

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[Riviot]

Gen 2 is currently universal hands off, so why would they go backwards to mapped roads?

But UHF is currently eyes-on. First round of eyes-off would be mapped roads.

 

[portdirect]

But UHF is currently eyes-on. First round of eyes-off would be mapped roads.

I don't think they ever indicated that Eyes Off would come in any form to Gen 2 or non-LIDAR-equipped vehicles. In fact, I'm pretty sure they stated this at the autonomy plus launch.

 

[Riviot]

I don't think they ever indicated that Eyes Off would come in any form to Gen 2 or non-LIDAR-equipped vehicles. In fact, I'm pretty sure they stated this at the autonomy plus launch.

It would be interesting for them to improve capabilities over initial advertising, very different approach to gen1 rollback/cancellation of advertised capabilities.

 

[godfodder0901]

I don't think they ever indicated that Eyes Off would come in any form to Gen 2 or non-LIDAR-equipped vehicles. In fact, I'm pretty sure they stated this at the autonomy plus launch.

Please read RJ's quote here:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ng-l2-this-year-2026-l3-next-year-2027.58407/

 

[rbrak29]

Later this year for point to point? Better get busy. Current version of UHF is not worth paying for.

 

[Zorg]

Eyes off will be certain highways during daytime with good weather. Also, L3 will most likely have to follow highway speed limits. Still, would be awesome

 

[TexasBob]

I don't think they ever indicated that Eyes Off would come in any form to Gen 2 or non-LIDAR-equipped vehicles. In fact, I'm pretty sure they stated this at the autonomy plus launch.

Um... That is literally what he said and the entire point of the thread

"So hands off, eyes off for specific domains. In this case, you know, starting with highways. And that will be true for Gen 2 of R1. It'll be true for the launch edition of R2, and it'll, of course, be true for the variant of the vehicle that has the higher compute stack and more capable perception."

 

[KBabione]

Also, L3 will most likely have to follow highway speed limits.

I've never had, or even been in, a vehicle with FSD...Please tell me that you can set it to go, for example, 9 MPH over the posted limit. On most of the highways I frequent (PA, NJ, and NOVA), I'd get run over if I was "only" doing the speed limit. Often it's 15-20 MPH over!

 

[RandomMcRandomFace]

I've never had, or even been in, a vehicle with FSD...Please tell me that you can set it to go, for example, 9 MPH over the posted limit. On most of the highways I frequent (PA, NJ, and NOVA), I'd get run over if I was "only" doing the speed limit. Often it's 15-20 MPH over!

You can but that’s also level 2, not level 3.

 

[Zorg]

You can but that’s also level 2, not level 3.

Exactly. At level 3, Rivian is liable. I can't imagine Rivian taking responsibility for breaking the law. Could be wrong though.

 

[KBabione]

Exactly. At level 3, Rivian is liable. I can't imagine Rivian taking responsibility for breaking the law. Could be wrong though.

Thanks both of you for the info. This doesn't seem to work with officers (when I get to meet them), but I swear all of the signs say "Speed Guideline." Perhaps I'm destined to be a L2 driver. Looking forward to the R2 in whatever form I can get it.

 

[RayoRiv]

Aside from the twister and how they're working around the damage... nothing new. Also already said before, gen3 and LiDAR's primary objective is to train their Large Driving Model and catch up to Tesla, which all gen2 Rivians will benefit from (including hands-off and eyes-off, point-to-point). Gen3 cars will just have higher development envelope and [probably] less restrictive parameters—because they can "see" more and further in adverse weather. LiDAR is not a must-have some make it to be.

That isn't it's only objective. The big issue with Tesla is they are 99.9% of the way there but, at this point anyway, will not be approved for L3 because they do not have redundant sensors. The regulatory agencies have flat out said that and I think they are correct. L3 is a big deal in regards to safety (obviously), if the car can't perform properly in rain, fog, dirty lenses etc then it shouldn't be approved. Tesla's bet is that with enough camera only miles feeding their new chip and LDM it will eventually get there. Yet, they have repeatedly raised the number of miles they claim will be needed.

Because Rivian chose redundancy in the form of Lidar they actually stand a chance of catching and surpassing Tesla in regards to legally being L3.

I think with their chip, the Lidar mileage that will quickly rack up and be added/used to train their LDM, we could definitely see L3 in 2027. Somebody mentioned it took Tesla X amount of years to get to this point so how could Rivian do it so quickly. Well, Rivian has also been working on it for years, (admittedly not nearly as long as Tesla). However, Rivian had the benefit of learning from Tesla, making a very capable chip soon to be released much earlier in their process and not making the massive mistake of a camera only system.

Tesla is in real trouble with their approach. It may work great but that doesn't mean it can be rolled out any time soon, or at all, and that will be catastrophic for them. I would guess they will apply some serious political pressure on the regulatory agencies to change their rule making process and get approval, but who knows.

Anyway, I like the RJ is putting this sort of timeline out there. He is not Elon, doesn't mean RJ will be correct, but I think people can trust him more than when Elon says something of a similar nature.

 

[srkz]

Based on the R1, I foresee the R2 holding its value rather well so hopefully I don't take too much of a bath in the next year.

Hopefully R2 depreciation is not like the R1... R1 depreciates like most six-figure vehicles, which is to say 30-45% in three years. It's a massive bath if you're intending to flip it quickly, especially if you live in a state like California that doesn't discount sales tax on trade-ins. Trading in a new vehicle within 3 years will pretty much always be financially irresponsible, the only question is whether you have enough money that being irresponsible with it is a problem or not.

 

[mkhuffman]

That isn't it's only objective. The big issue with Tesla is they are 99.9% of the way there but, at this point anyway, will not be approved for L3 because they do not have redundant sensors. The regulatory agencies have flat out said that and I think they are correct. L3 is a big deal in regards to safety (obviously), if the car can't perform properly in rain, fog, dirty lenses etc then it shouldn't be approved. Tesla's bet is that with enough camera only miles feeding their new chip and LDM it will eventually get there. Yet, they have repeatedly raised the number of miles they claim will be needed.

Because Rivian chose redundancy in the form of Lidar they actually stand a chance of catching and surpassing Tesla in regards to legally being L3.

I think with their chip, the Lidar mileage that will quickly rack up and be added/used to train their LDM, we could definitely see L3 in 2027. Somebody mentioned it took Tesla X amount of years to get to this point so how could Rivian do it so quickly. Well, Rivian has also been working on it for years, (admittedly not nearly as long as Tesla). However, Rivian had the benefit of learning from Tesla, making a very capable chip soon to be released much earlier in their process and not making the massive mistake of a camera only system.

Tesla is in real trouble with their approach. It may work great but that doesn't mean it can be rolled out any time soon, or at all, and that will be catastrophic for them. I would guess they will apply some serious political pressure on the regulatory agencies to change their rule making process and get approval, but who knows.

Anyway, I like the RJ is putting this sort of timeline out there. He is not Elon, doesn't mean RJ will be correct, but I think people can trust him more than when Elon says something of a similar nature.

Reasonable points but Gen2 does not have Lidar.

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