🚨 Rivian Adopts Tesla NACS Standard! (Adapters in 2024, Standard Charging Port in 2025)

[Luckycharms783]

It depends on usage. Taken to the extreme, let's say there is only a single charge in a month, peaking at ~220kW for a total of 80kWh. That could cost them ~$6,600 for the demand charges and ~$4 for the energy charges. Obviously, they can't charge a single person $6,604 for a charge. (Demand charges vary by region/utility but are often between $20 and $50 per kW, I figured at $30/kW.)

Say you wanted to get it down to $1/kWh you would need to get ~85 charges per month, or three per day. But if you have two of those charges overlap, your demand charges double to $13,200, so then you need ~6 sessions per day to keep it at $1/kWh. But that increases the chances of having three simultaneous charging sessions, increasing demand charges to $18,000. (Assuming a maximum station capacity of 600kW.) So, you would need ~8 charging sessions per day.

Do you think there is enough demand for at those sites to get ~250 charging sessions per month? Even when charging $1/kWh?

Edit: I found one rate structure for a random place in Utah:

So, demand charges are only about $20/kW. (Facility + Power). So maybe it would work at ~175 charging session per month.



Tesla does vary their rates per station, and even time of use. (Electrify America on the other hand charges a single rate country wide.)

See I knew someone smarter than me could explain why there hasn't been a lot of DCFC installed in needed, but underutilized, locations!

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[Zorg]

See I knew someone smarter than me could explain why there hasn't been a lot of DCFC installed in needed, but underutilized, locations!

That's where DCFC with integrated battery make sense. They don't incur high demand charges but can only serve less than 10 vehicles per day

 

[MP3Mike]

That's where DCFC with integrated battery make sense. They don't incur high demand charges but can only serve less than 10 vehicles per day

Yep, that is where chargers like the FreeWire work OK. With a 100A service they could support ~7 charges per day, but only if they were spread out evenly over the entire 24 hours. I think they have ~160kWh of batteries, so can support two charges at full speed, then it would take about 7 hours to fill up the on-board battery again.

Tesla Megapacks are really too big/expensive for the remote locations unless they were needed to stabilize the grid, or offset solar/wind power, and could earn money that way. It is too bad that Tesla discontinued the Powerpacks, as they were about the right size to pair with a DC fast charging site. (Maybe they still make them, and just don't advertise them?)

 

[dleewla]

a free CCS-NACS adapter is the least Rivian can do for customers. they just lowered the value of our vehicles overnight.

they should include 2 years of free charging on RAN

 

[brancky3]

a free CCS-NACS adapter is the least Rivian can do for customers. they just lowered the value of our vehicles overnight.

they should include 2 years of free charging on RAN

I don't understand why anyone is claiming lowered value. The "value" would be lowered only as much as the adapter costs... like $200? I'm fine with my vehicle losing 0.2% of it's value if it means I have more charging options.

 

[Puttyandnapalm]

I still haven’t got my official email from Rivian about the NACS.
doesn’t give me hope my tonneau will be here anytime soon.

 

[zefram47]

I don't understand why anyone is claiming lowered value. The "value" would be lowered only as much as the adapter costs... like $200? I'm fine with my vehicle losing 0.2% of it's value if it means I have more charging options.

Probably because some people perceive use of an adapter as a negative.

 

[azbill]

Maybe you should review the documents that they have provided: https://www.tesla.com/support/charging-product-guides#NACS-resources

Thanks for the reference.

 

[azbill]

Maybe you should review the documents that they have provided: https://www.tesla.com/support/charging-product-guides#NACS-resources

So, hidden in this is the fact Tesla had to change the connector depth and increase the contact area to support 1000v And 900A.

 

[SANZC02]

a free CCS-NACS adapter is the least Rivian can do for customers. they just lowered the value of our vehicles overnight.

they should include 2 years of free charging on RAN

I don’t know, some might argue they have increased the value now that there would be access to so many more chargers….

 

[Tahoe Man]

That's where DCFC with integrated battery make sense. They don't incur high demand charges but can only serve less than 10 vehicles per day

If I'm only serving a handful of EVs a day, why would I want to install a charging station that will never make a profit??

 

[Zorg]

If I'm only serving a handful of EVs a day, why would I want to install a charging station that will never make a profit??

Oh agreed. The question was how to limit demand costs for low usage stations. It's probably impossible to make money on a low usage station regardless.

Better question: where have you taken your truck around Tahoe?

 

[Tahoe Man]

Oh agreed. The question was how to limit demand costs for low usage stations. It's probably impossible to make money on a low usage station regardless.

Better question: where have you taken your truck around Tahoe?

50kw chargers will help reduce demand fees by large amount. But now you're sitting at the charger for almost two hours if your going to full. Imo it's the best choice out of a limited number of options unless a better negotiated term cash be established with the utility.

 

[Yossarian]

If I'm only serving a handful of EVs a day, why would I want to install a charging station that will never make a profit??

Oh agreed. The question was how to limit demand costs for low usage stations. It's probably impossible to make money on a low usage station regardless.

Better question: where have you taken your truck around Tahoe?

Obviously there's no profit to be made, and hence no incentive for companies to install charging stations in the more remote areas and in geographically isolated places with small populations. That likely means that government programs will be needed, and at the Federal level. The recent IRA may have anticipated this however.

The IRA provides $11 bn in funding for grants and loans to " help rural energy and utility providers bring affordable, reliable clean energy to their communities across the country." I haven't delved into the details of the act, but on the surface, it appears that something like charging stations would be eligible for some of that $11 bn.

The issue is likely to be getting a rural entity, like a cooperative or a small rural electric company, interested in exploiting the IRA grant money. As I understand it, much of the IRA funding needs to flow through the state itself, so that may be another impediment. Many of the rural areas that would most benefit from having charging stations are in states that are indifferent, or in some cases hostile to EV's, something that could make it tough for co-ops and rural electric providers.

 

[israndy]

So, hidden in this is the fact Tesla had to change the connector depth and increase the contact area to support 1000v And 900A.

Hidden? There are tons of diagrams showing the two versions, but they are both compatible with each other, and will always provide the correct volts/amps for specific charging situations.

Tesla was initially jaded about 800v cars when Porsche announced that was their direction. Elon and RJ laughed about the arc'ing potential, but you can't argue with success. CyberTruck should start shipping this year and we'll finally find out what Tesla's plan will be for all these v3 400v Superchargers. Can't imagine they will only allow owners of the new trucks to charge full speed at the rare v4 Superchargers

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