LL75
Well-Known Member
Are you currently using this? Did you switched from 21" or from 20" AT? How is the ride compared to the one u switched?That’s the tire you want then:
General Grabber HTS60 275/60R20:
34 pounds
$212/tire
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20" tire recommendations
- Thread starter Blackhatch
- Start date
- Watchers 16
ksurfier
Well-Known Member
It’s a rotational mass thing, 2lbs of tire weight is equal to about 1lb of rim weight. So it is much easier to reduce tire weight for a greater effect. Saving 5 pounds on your rim is like saving 2-3 lbs on the tire….its not that important, better to just get the MSW #52 rims and put a set of 34# General grabbers on them, should be around 70# total per wheel.
ksurfier
Well-Known Member
To answer your question, I would guess that 29# rim plus 34# tire setup would get between 2.7 and 2.8 mi/kw…this is at around 65 mph, drop 1% for each mph above 65. Around 2.5 at 75, 2.4 at 80…
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Polar
Well-Known Member
Once the wheel set is spinning at speed - rotational mass has very little to do with efficiency. It transitions to rolling resistance and aero profile.
Blackhatch
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #67
Appreciate the recommendation. Speed 2X and why can't this be a 5 minute video...?
Blackhatch
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #68
Are you running this set up with the 1" shorter tire?That’s the tire you want then:
General Grabber HTS60 275/60R20:
34 pounds
$212/tire
LL75
Well-Known Member
UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan
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ksurfier
Well-Known Member
From reports here I've noticed the following general relationship between tire weight and efficiency:
Here are sources:
2.86 mi/kw (366.5 miles/128 kwh) General Grabber HTS60 (34.0 pounds)
2.63 mi/kw (99.5 miles/37.8 kwh) Pirrelli AS3+ (38.0 Pounds), User JJE dated 2/23/2023
" I switched to Scorpion AS on the 20 inch wheels and consistently get over 2.5 on average in AP mode. On the highway in Conserve, between 2.6 and 2.8 at 70 mph. "
All Purpose: 2.5 mi/kw (290.3 miles/128.4 kwh) Pirrelli AS3+ (38.0 Pounds), User anthonysfl dated 10/11/2023
Conserve: 2.93 mi/kw (343.3 miles/130.6 kwh) Pirrelli AS3+ (38.0 Pounds), User anthonysfl dated 10/11/2023
| 3.0 mi/kw for 30# (max range of 380 miles) Theoretical - No tires available this lightweight | |
| 2.6 mi/kw for 35# (max range of 330 miles) General Grabber HTS60 275/60R20 (LOW UTQG) [22.3; 19+3.3] | |
| 2.4 mi/kw for 40# (max range of 305 miles) Pirrelli AS3+ 275/60R20; Defender LTX M/S2 [23.6; 21+2.6] | |
| 2.2 mi/kw for 45# (max range of 280 miles) Pirrelli OEM scorpion 275/65R20 [27.4; 23+4.4] | |
2.0 mi/kw for 50# (max range of 250 miles) no data for this range; (possibly:
| |
| 1.8 mi/kw for 55# (max range of 230 miles) BFG KO2 275/60R20 [33; 28+5] | |
| 1.6 mi/kw for 60# (max range of 200 miles) Nitto Recon Grappler 275/65R20 |
Here are sources:
2.86 mi/kw (366.5 miles/128 kwh) General Grabber HTS60 (34.0 pounds)
2.63 mi/kw (99.5 miles/37.8 kwh) Pirrelli AS3+ (38.0 Pounds), User JJE dated 2/23/2023
" I switched to Scorpion AS on the 20 inch wheels and consistently get over 2.5 on average in AP mode. On the highway in Conserve, between 2.6 and 2.8 at 70 mph. "
All Purpose: 2.5 mi/kw (290.3 miles/128.4 kwh) Pirrelli AS3+ (38.0 Pounds), User anthonysfl dated 10/11/2023
Conserve: 2.93 mi/kw (343.3 miles/130.6 kwh) Pirrelli AS3+ (38.0 Pounds), User anthonysfl dated 10/11/2023
LL75
Well-Known Member
awesome compilation. is there a big different between the 21" OEM pirelli and the Pirelli AS3? Also, according to SolartoEV, the general grabber only give him less than 20K miles just like the OEM 21".
ksurfier
Well-Known Member
Yes -
The 21" Pirelli Verde AS is only 600 AA (so definitely not a long lasting tire). It's also almost $500/tire. It's low weight (37#) so that's why it gets high efficiency. The 20" Pirelli AS+3 is also lightweight but a better tread compound (UTQG is 800 AA), also about half the cost too...
For 20", there are ~3 good options, all with slight differences:
Michellin Defender LTX M/S2 - UTQG = 820 BA, 39 pounds and 11/32" tread, a width of only 7.8" (very narrow). Load rating of 116 (2756#). Made in USA. ~$1,200 for 4 tires. Number 1 rated 275/60R20 tire on tirerack.com. The Defender is good in the snow but rates poorly for any offroading. 70,000 mile warranty.
Pirelli AS+3 - UTQG = 800 AA, 38 pounds and 11/32" tread, a width of 8.3" (narrow). Load rating of 115 (2679#). Made in Mexico. ~$1,100 for 4 tires. Number 2 rated 275/60R20 tire on tirerack.com. Snow performance is ok, offroad ability is decent, better than the defender. 70,000 mile warranty.
General Grabber HTS60 - UTQG = 620 AB, 34 pounds (lightest weight 20" tire available) and 10/32" tread, a width of 8.6". Load rating of 116 (2756#). Made in USA. ~$850 for 4 tires. The
biggest plus for this tire is lightweight. 65,000 mile warranty.
Defender will appeal to majority of users that want the longest-lasting no-hassel tire (Michellin also has the best warranty process, so it's likely the long-term cost will be lower than the others).
The AS+3 will be for anyone that plans to do occasional light offroading couple times per year. I would prob. take the AS+3 over the defender due to width (<8" tread seems too little for such a large/heavy vehicle).
Grabber is for those looking for the max efficiency/cheapest/fastest tires. At more than 10% lower weight than the next tire, it's likely to have a solid lead for efficiency/speed. The width of 8.6" is also a plus as it matches the rim width.
The 21" Pirelli Verde AS is only 600 AA (so definitely not a long lasting tire). It's also almost $500/tire. It's low weight (37#) so that's why it gets high efficiency. The 20" Pirelli AS+3 is also lightweight but a better tread compound (UTQG is 800 AA), also about half the cost too...
For 20", there are ~3 good options, all with slight differences:
Michellin Defender LTX M/S2 - UTQG = 820 BA, 39 pounds and 11/32" tread, a width of only 7.8" (very narrow). Load rating of 116 (2756#). Made in USA. ~$1,200 for 4 tires. Number 1 rated 275/60R20 tire on tirerack.com. The Defender is good in the snow but rates poorly for any offroading. 70,000 mile warranty.
Pirelli AS+3 - UTQG = 800 AA, 38 pounds and 11/32" tread, a width of 8.3" (narrow). Load rating of 115 (2679#). Made in Mexico. ~$1,100 for 4 tires. Number 2 rated 275/60R20 tire on tirerack.com. Snow performance is ok, offroad ability is decent, better than the defender. 70,000 mile warranty.
General Grabber HTS60 - UTQG = 620 AB, 34 pounds (lightest weight 20" tire available) and 10/32" tread, a width of 8.6". Load rating of 116 (2756#). Made in USA. ~$850 for 4 tires. The
biggest plus for this tire is lightweight. 65,000 mile warranty.
Defender will appeal to majority of users that want the longest-lasting no-hassel tire (Michellin also has the best warranty process, so it's likely the long-term cost will be lower than the others).
The AS+3 will be for anyone that plans to do occasional light offroading couple times per year. I would prob. take the AS+3 over the defender due to width (<8" tread seems too little for such a large/heavy vehicle).
Grabber is for those looking for the max efficiency/cheapest/fastest tires. At more than 10% lower weight than the next tire, it's likely to have a solid lead for efficiency/speed. The width of 8.6" is also a plus as it matches the rim width.
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ksurfier
Well-Known Member
No worries, glad to help. Note the 20" tires above are 275/60R20 (not 275/65).
For some of the other posters here, unfortunately all 275/65R20 tires are heavier than 50 pounds (except the OEM Pirelli's).
This means that getting better or even same efficiency as the OEM 20" tire is not possible.
Can get pretty close but not the same. If the OEM tire tread lasted a reasonable distance it would be an easy call to stay with OEM tires, but they don't....
Hopefully over time we will see some new EV focused tires added in the 30-40 pound range...
Also, the difference between the two sizes (275/65 and 275/60 is only ~3%). For example, if you have a measured efficiency just subtract 0.1 and that will compensate, 33" tires getting 2.4 mi/kwh is actually 2.3 mi/kwh. Not a big deal...
Another interesting 275/60R20 tire that would be closer to the OEM 20" Pirelli is:
KUMHO ROAD VENTURE AT52
UTQG = 680 AA, 44 pounds and 13.5/32" tread, a width of 9.1". Load rating of 115 (2679#). Made in Vietnam. ~$936 for 4 tires. It's severe snow tire rated. 50,000 mile warranty. Would likely come in between 2.2 and 2.3 mi/kwh.
For some of the other posters here, unfortunately all 275/65R20 tires are heavier than 50 pounds (except the OEM Pirelli's).
This means that getting better or even same efficiency as the OEM 20" tire is not possible.
Can get pretty close but not the same. If the OEM tire tread lasted a reasonable distance it would be an easy call to stay with OEM tires, but they don't....
Hopefully over time we will see some new EV focused tires added in the 30-40 pound range...
Also, the difference between the two sizes (275/65 and 275/60 is only ~3%). For example, if you have a measured efficiency just subtract 0.1 and that will compensate, 33" tires getting 2.4 mi/kwh is actually 2.3 mi/kwh. Not a big deal...
Another interesting 275/60R20 tire that would be closer to the OEM 20" Pirelli is:
KUMHO ROAD VENTURE AT52
UTQG = 680 AA, 44 pounds and 13.5/32" tread, a width of 9.1". Load rating of 115 (2679#). Made in Vietnam. ~$936 for 4 tires. It's severe snow tire rated. 50,000 mile warranty. Would likely come in between 2.2 and 2.3 mi/kwh.
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