DC Fast Charger Provider Rankings

[Budman]

Thanks! Second chart is interesting. Could you remove the highest and lowest values from each set and compute the trimmed statistics (mean, median, standard dev)? All those “perfect tens” might not be so meaningful anyway. The result would probably be more reflective of “when things go wrong, how bad is it” for each provider.

What you and several other members are pointing out is that the PlugShare score is an imperfect metric. That is why I added Chart 4. This was my attempt at a metric for charging locations with reduced power output. I scanned the recent comments of every plugshare location I looked at (360 locations across the US and Canda by the way!) and noted occurrences of reduced power complaints. Electrify America does indeed have a high occurrence of reduced power. Chart 4 repeated here;

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[VSG]

How do you account for the "ignorant" reviews, like when someone with a vehicle that is incapable of charging at more than 50kW posts a bad review of a 350kW charger because it didn't give them 350kW? Even Rivian owners are guilty of this (gasp!) - a lot of charger brands are current limited, so the advertised maximum rate might never be reached with a 400V vehicle. These bad reviews are biased against the highest power chargers because everyone can accept a 50kW charge so you're not going to see this sort of complaint for networks that are mostly 50kW chargers.

I think it would be awesome to have an open API used across the industry to expose real-time status and pricing for every charging station. That would be far more useful to everyone than a dozen individual apps (one for each network) which even then don't always have this information. And it would be far more useful than user reviews.

 

[Budman]

How do you account for the "ignorant" reviews, like when someone with a vehicle that is incapable of charging at more than 50kW posts a bad review of a 350kW charger because it didn't give them 350kW? Even Rivian owners are guilty of this (gasp!) - a lot of charger brands are current limited, so the advertised maximum rate might never be reached with a 400V vehicle. These bad reviews are biased against the highest power chargers because everyone can accept a 50kW charge so you're not going to see this sort of complaint for networks that are mostly 50kW chargers.

I think it would be awesome to have an open API used across the industry to expose real-time status and pricing for every charging station. That would be far more useful to everyone than a dozen individual apps (one for each network) which even then don't always have this information. And it would be far more useful than user reviews.

I did try to account for this, I scanned the comments and ignored Bolt owners comments about low power. I only included knowlegable, relevant comments. It wasn't especially easy, I spent about 6 hours on this project but figured my Rivian friends would like it .

An open API would be great to have tied directly into the Rivian Nav/Charging system!

 

[Doug]

I would put Zef on the bottom. I have tried in Marshall, New Ulm and looked on plugshare at a couple others they seem to always be down. Why is this network so bad? Even the level 2 does not work sometimes. The only one I have gotten to work is in Mankato. A lot of times it is the only option in a town so if it is not working it makes it difficult to plan a trip. I have good success with EA and chargepoint. Never had an issue with those chargers.

 

[zefram47]

There are a lot of things wrong with the PlugShare scores, but surely it's a good thing that the scores are heavily weighted towards recent sessions - it does me no good to hear about how a particular station was broken last year, all I want to know is whether it's going to work when I get there.

The reason it's an issue is there are a ton of people who will find the one dispenser at a site that actually works and mark it as a good charge despite having tried every option at the site before getting to the one that works. At that point I want to see that only 1 of 6 dispensers is working so I can try to avoid it. But you mention in a later comment the opposite issue where there are no problems with the site, but someone may mark a bad charge because they only got 50 kW in their Bolt instead of the "rated" 350 kW, etc.

 

[VSG]

Yes, one of the problems with PlugShare is that it only lets you rate the site, not the specific dispenser. So it doesn't seem right to give a bad rating to the entire site if only one dispenser is down and you just happened to choose that first. Of course EA and others could help prevent that by putting big red/green lights on the dispensers so that we wouldn't waste time pulling in, plugging in, then finding out 5 minutes later the dispenser is not working or derated and having to switch to another one and begin the process all over.

 

[jjswan33]

I would put Zef on the bottom. I have tried in Marshall, New Ulm and looked on plugshare at a couple others they seem to always be down. Why is this network so bad? Even the level 2 does not work sometimes. The only one I have gotten to work is in Mankato. A lot of times it is the only option in a town so if it is not working it makes it difficult to plan a trip. I have good success with EA and chargepoint. Never had an issue with those chargers.

I think it has something to do with the equipment they use. Out here in the PNW we have EVCS which uses the same hardware as ZEF and they are also frequently non-functional.

 

[IGR]

So only people with super expensive EVs that charge really fast should be allowed to use DCFC...

Me and the folks over at the country club were just talking about this the other day.

Although I agree they should be using the slower chargers when they are available, they still need to charge. Some could also argue Rivians shouldn’t use the 350kw chargers since they don’t max out near that high.

I should have clarified that this is happening at EVgo locations which typically have 4 350kw dispensers and 2 100kw dispensers.

Of course I am not trying to prevent anyone from charging, I was only half joking.

The Bolt charges at 55kW, and the BMW i3 charges at 50kW.. so I guess all the BMW i3's "should be banned from using DCFC altogether" too?

Who else should we ban from DC fast charging so you can move to the front of the line?

Damn, so much lack of sense of humor...

Have a good one.

 

[IGR]

On a subject, initially I used EA network, and out of 4-6 sessions only once I got rated speeds, and charging worked without any issues.
On contrary, EVgo when they are not offline, works every time I plug in. No derating, no problems with activation, or payment. Also its cheaper, $0.27 per kwh, when off-peak (in SoCal).

 

[azbill]

I think it would be awesome to have an open API used across the industry to expose real-time status and pricing for every charging station.

Not sure if it is an open API or not, but my Mach E and Fordpass have real time status and pricing for many chargers, EA, EVGO, CP, EV Connect, etc. The data is available. And with Fordpass you can actually initiate the charge from the app, and soon from the screen in the car.

 

[VSG]

Yes, most networks seem to have the data available to their own apps, and in some cases make it freely available to third parties. But not all do this. With PlugShare, you can see the availability when that data is available. It is always available for EVGo and ChargePoint, but it is never available for EA. That implies to me that EA doesn't have an open API and you are required to pay to access the data. I imagine that Ford is paying those fees to make the data available to Fordpass members. Additionally, I doubt that all the charger networks have a common API and data format for their availability information - I believe any program like PlugShare needs to have separate implementations for the separate networks.

 

[jimmyb2]

I scanned the recent comments of every plugshare location I looked at (360 locations across the US and Canda by the way!) and noted occurrences of reduced power complaints.

It wasn't especially easy, I spent about 6 hours on this project

I really like what you did. No one else (that I am aware of) has even attempted that. You had a great idea, and I was with you all the way until I read those 2 comments.

Those indicate your review of data required only 1 minute per location. Assuming you could accomplish that (I couldn’t), when did you have time to organize the data, create the graphs, and enter it in this forum?

I think if I tried to do what you did it would take me 2 or 3 days, but then maybe my brain is just slow. I suspect you spent a little more time than stated.

 

[Craigins]

That was pretty much what I was saying for EA, my personal experience has been pretty decent for EA and I usually look for those when I travel. EVgo has been ok but seems to be a lot more expensive compared to EA.

A recent example,

EVgo Charged 25%, went from 67% to 92%, took 36 minutes and cost $27.20
EA. Charged 51%, went from 29% to 80%, took 35 minutes, cost $27.00

Extra time was expected because I went to 92%, more about the cost.

I will say though the plug and charge at EVgo although not as quick as the Superchargers to initialize and start charging, is nice to use. I really hope we can get that on other networks soon.

I would expect this in some areas around me. Wisconsin does not allow for the "resale" of electricity so they cannot charge per kWh delivered. Instead they charge by minute.

This is why I think EA downrates its stations on purpose. If you charge per minute and provide 350kW charging, you earn much less than if you derate the station to 100kW and make it twice as long. Since these stations are not packed, it increases their profit.

It was nice while it lasted though. I could make a 350 mile trip for about $18.

 

[SANZC02]

I would expect this in some areas around me. Wisconsin does not allow for the "resale" of electricity so they cannot charge per kWh delivered. Instead they charge by minute.

This is why I think EA downrates its stations on purpose. If you charge per minute and provide 350kW charging, you earn much less than if you derate the station to 100kW and make it twice as long. Since these stations are not packed, it increases their profit.

It was nice while it lasted though. I could make a 350 mile trip for about $18.

Yes, a lot of the southern states on I10 were by the minute. I tried to stay under 72% in those states, cost $98 dollars to go from Pensacola, FL to Phoenix, AZ (1750 miles). Actually was getting pretty decent charge curves at most of the chargers.

Compare that to the last 350 miles from Phoenix to SoCal, where AZ and CA are by the kW, cost me $38 to go the last 350 miles.

 

[Budman]

I really like what you did. No one else (that I am aware of) has even attempted that. You had a great idea, and I was with you all the way until I read those 2 comments.

Those indicate your review of data required only 1 minute per location. Assuming you could accomplish that (I couldn’t), when did you have time to organize the data, create the graphs, and enter it in this forum?

I think if I tried to do what you did it would take me 2 or 3 days, but then maybe my brain is just slow. I suspect you spent a little more time than stated.

Ok, maybe it was a wee bit more than six hours. ?‍???‍

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