Detailer's opinions & measurements on paint thickness, panel gaps, fit-n-finish

[User433]

As part of getting my truck ready for PPF/ceramic coating, the local detail shop provides a "new car delivery inspection" which helps customers understand whether the new car they got is defect-free especially if they're going to drop $$$ on protecting the exterior. It's a free service and I'm sure it's about drumming up business, but the inspection was legitimate. Below are the takeaways:

• He took 195 paint depth measurements with an average of 3.9. I think he said "mill" which I assume is "millionth of an inch". In his opinion, a best-in-class paint job is around 4. He said he's seen multiple Teslas with spots in the 1-2 range.
• He was able to find two minor surface finish issues. I don't think in 100 years I would have spotted them. His guess is that it happened when they removed the delivery film. He said they are very minor and will polish right out when they prep the car for ceramic.
• He said the panel gaps were excellent and really put Tesla to shame. He and his boss were at the Seattle Rivian launch a couple of years back and they took note of some quality issues on the prototype - panel gaps and poor paint quality (dust nibs). This was the first production Rivian he's seen and he specifically checked those problem areas and said they were all taken care of. He couldn't find any panel gap or gasket issues.
• Overall he said he was very impressed with the exterior build quality given that Rivan is still in its infancy.

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[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Thanks for sharing these deets!

 

[crashmtb]

A mil is 1/1000th of an inch. So 3.9 mil is 0.0039”.

 

[BigE]

Hum...I would question some of what this shop is telling you. I'm not a pro detailer just love to work on my own cars, bikes, etc, and thickness gauges are not expensive. The thinnest paint I've ever worked on is my daughter's 2013 Honda Fit. Her fit's paint is ~2.7 - 2.9 mil. Super thin. Most auto's out of Telsa/Honda/Toyota/Lexus/GM/Ford, etc run 3.5-4.0 mil, so a 4.0 on the Rivian would be mainstream/normal. My brother's 2020 Model Y, most area's all run in the high 3.9 mil. Normal paint factory paint today would be 1-2 mil base, 1-2 mil color, 2-3 mil clear. The best I've ever seen is a friend's Acura NSX with the Andaro paint job...18 mil's. Some exotics may run into the high 20's to low 30's.

 

[crashmtb]

Hum...I would question some of what this shop is telling you. I'm not a pro detailer just love to work on my own cars, bikes, etc, and thickness gauges are not expensive. The thinnest paint I've ever worked on is my daughter's 2013 Honda Fit. Her fit's paint is ~2.7 - 2.9 mil. Super thin. Most auto's out of Telsa/Honda/Toyota/Lexus/GM/Ford, etc run 3.5-4.0 mil, so a 4.0 on the Rivian would be mainstream/normal. My brother's 2020 Model Y, most area's all run in the high 3.9 mil. Normal paint factory paint today would be 1-2 mil base, 1-2 mil color, 2-3 mil clear. The best I've ever seen is a friend's Acura NSX with the Andaro paint job...18 mil's. Some exotics may run into the high 20's to low 30's.

There’s a lot of woo in detailing-land. It’s almost as bad as audiophiles ?
@Davethadog will probably be along shortly ?

 

[mini2nut]

A mil is 1/1000th of an inch. So 3.9 mil is 0.0039”.

For reference, the standard household Ziploc® Brand sandwich bag is 1.5 Mil. The heavier freezer bags sold in stores are about 3 Mil.
2 Mil. is the standard industry thickness.

 

[Davethadog]

Hum...I would question some of what this shop is telling you. I'm not a pro detailer just love to work on my own cars, bikes, etc, and thickness gauges are not expensive. The thinnest paint I've ever worked on is my daughter's 2013 Honda Fit. Her fit's paint is ~2.7 - 2.9 mil. Super thin. Most auto's out of Telsa/Honda/Toyota/Lexus/GM/Ford, etc run 3.5-4.0 mil, so a 4.0 on the Rivian would be mainstream/normal. My brother's 2020 Model Y, most area's all run in the high 3.9 mil. Normal paint factory paint today would be 1-2 mil base, 1-2 mil color, 2-3 mil clear. The best I've ever seen is a friend's Acura NSX with the Andaro paint job...18 mil's. Some exotics may run into the high 20's to low 30's.

I AM INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THAT NSX LINE!!!

So glad you brought up the NSX line. The NSX line is actually done in PPG refinish rather than industrial paint lines. This means urethane paints that allow a much thicker stack up than most acrylic industrial alternatives. The depth in that color comes from a dyed based locked down over clear base with pearl, another candy pearl DBC coat and then SEVERAL layers of clear sprayed with trans tech and HVLP guns versus is the bells commonly used in industrial paint lines. That line in Ohio is THE paint line to beat anywhere in the world IMO. The only people that can do such a complex type of stack up at any type of scale like that outside of NSX are Gunslinger Custom Paint in Golden, CO who paint for the HD CVO assembly line. The first clear coat layer before sanding there is probably 4 mils by itself.

Long story short 4 mils ain’t shit and is not indicative of a quality paint job but instead is indicative of an efficient one. You’d never see such a thin application on motorcycles or custom cars.

@crashmtb put out the bat signal for me to talk too much about paint and here it is…

 

[User433]

Thanks for the additional context on those numbers. I learned a little bit about paint today ?

 

[kanundrum]

As part of getting my truck ready for PPF/ceramic coating, the local detail shop provides a "new car delivery inspection" which helps customers understand whether the new car they got is defect-free especially if they're going to drop $$$ on protecting the exterior. It's a free service and I'm sure it's about drumming up business, but the inspection was legitimate. Below are the takeaways:

• He took 195 paint depth measurements with an average of 3.9. I think he said "mill" which I assume is "millionth of an inch". In his opinion, a best-in-class paint job is around 4. He said he's seen multiple Teslas with spots in the 1-2 range.
• He was able to find two minor surface finish issues. I don't think in 100 years I would have spotted them. His guess is that it happened when they removed the delivery film. He said they are very minor and will polish right out when they prep the car for ceramic.
• He said the panel gaps were excellent and really put Tesla to shame. He and his boss were at the Seattle Rivian launch a couple of years back and they took note of some quality issues on the prototype - panel gaps and poor paint quality (dust nibs). This was the first production Rivian he's seen and he specifically checked those problem areas and said they were all taken care of. He couldn't find any panel gap or gasket issues.
• Overall he said he was very impressed with the exterior build quality given that Rivan is still in its infancy.

Pretty awesome to hear about the Paint! I suspect that was a good production quality version with the one off bad ones happening every now and then like it does with any other product. What is very interesting is that I hear the White is a 3 layer thick coat and is the thickest of ALL paints for whichever reason.

 

[Davethadog]

What is very interesting is that I hear the White is a 3 layer thick coat and is the thickest of ALL paints for whichever reason.

That’s only because white paint hides the worst and almost no primers are anything close to white.

That said, I’d be shocked if yellow and red weren’t thicker.

 

[kanundrum]

That’s only because white paint hides the worst and almost no primers are anything close to white.

That said, I’d be shocked if yellow and red weren’t thicker.

From their head detailer I've been told white is the thickest afaik. Will have to measure.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

A mil is 1/1000th of an inch. So 3.9 mil is 0.0039”.

You call yourself Canadian! 1mm is .0394"

3.9mm is .153" or a little over 5/32" of an inch thick

 

[crashmtb]

You call yourself Canadian! 1mm is .0394"

3.9mm is .153" or a little over 5/32" of an inch thick

No, not a millimetre. A mil! Different things!


I don’t see how this can be confusing. It’s just like going to the deli section of the grocery store and buying 1 lb of meat but it’s priced per 100g. Simple! ?

 

[moosehead]

Swordfights! Mine's bigger!

 

[Greenwater]

As part of getting my truck ready for PPF/ceramic coating, the local detail shop provides a "new car delivery inspection" which helps customers understand whether the new car they got is defect-free especially if they're going to drop $$$ on protecting the exterior. It's a free service and I'm sure it's about drumming up business, but the inspection was legitimate. Below are the takeaways:

• He took 195 paint depth measurements with an average of 3.9. I think he said "mill" which I assume is "millionth of an inch". In his opinion, a best-in-class paint job is around 4. He said he's seen multiple Teslas with spots in the 1-2 range.
• He was able to find two minor surface finish issues. I don't think in 100 years I would have spotted them. His guess is that it happened when they removed the delivery film. He said they are very minor and will polish right out when they prep the car for ceramic.
• He said the panel gaps were excellent and really put Tesla to shame. He and his boss were at the Seattle Rivian launch a couple of years back and they took note of some quality issues on the prototype - panel gaps and poor paint quality (dust nibs). This was the first production Rivian he's seen and he specifically checked those problem areas and said they were all taken care of. He couldn't find any panel gap or gasket issues.
• Overall he said he was very impressed with the exterior build quality given that Rivan is still in its infancy.

I'm in the Seattle area too. About what does ceramic cost you here? I really don't know much about wraps and ceramic, need to bone up and decide if I'm doing it.

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