Interesting interview with Ford CEO about how switch to NACS went down -- worth a listen

[scottf200]

To all those saying Rivian owners will be called jerks: maybe just don’t contribute to the normalization of that term for Rivian owners?

If Rivian changes the R2/R3 charge port to be compatible and not take up two stalls then I suspect this problem goes away.

If not then it will stick and many will say Rivian did it to the owners and themselves when they could have avoided it.

Tesla Lead Engineer:

This location will forever doom all Rivian owners to be the jerk taking two spots at a Tesla charger, don't do that to your customers. ... You've done the right thing for customers moving to NACS, take it the last mile and put it in a location that works seamlessly with existing infrastructure.​

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[COdogman]

If Rivian changes the R2/R3 charge port to be compatible and not take up two stalls then I suspect this problem goes away.

If not then it will stick and many will say Rivian did it to the owners and themselves when they could have avoided it.

Tesla Lead Engineer:

This location will forever doom all Rivian owners to be the jerk taking two spots at a Tesla charger, don't do that to your customers. ... You've done the right thing for customers moving to NACS, take it the last mile and put it in a location that works seamlessly with existing infrastructure.​

Tesla doesn’t get to dictate to all manufacturers where they place their charge port. If they were concerned about this they had options:

1. Don’t open up your network to all these other brands with random port locations.
2. Open network to all EVs and then complain about all the random port locations, implying these drivers are now “jerks” for using the chargers that are open to them.
3. Adapt to the situation by installing longer cables that allow all EVs to charge at your stations.

Tesla appears to be choosing option 2, which is not surprising at all coming from the designer of the vanity project Cybertruck. But they need to realize that when they decided to open up their network, that was it - that doesn’t come with some other power to tell automakers where to put their ports. They get to choose where they install chargers, which ones are open, and how much they charge.

If this is a problem for them they should make their chargers with longer cables and solve it.

 

[emoore]

Preface -- just to be clear I am very excited for Rivian and their R2/R3/R3X future. I think it is a huge opportunity.

Real current and foreseeable time situation tho --- Keep in mind that there are 100s of v3 Tesla Superchargers going in weekly. Tesla is vastly outpacing others in this space. It will be a long time before there are many v4 superchargers going in. They will be friendly to rear-left and front-right.

Therefore having EV community-friendly charge port locations are pretty important to avoid conflicts and issues at Superchargers. Cars come and go at random based on arriving and departing SOC needs. You can put all one type on the right and all the other type on the left.

Ford and Jim F know this based on the what they stated. Rivian and their owners will have an idiom "black eye" (Tesla term: jerks) if they don't change the charger port location.

Too bad most (all?) of those aren't amiable to CCS cars. At least not yet. I've been following the openings of superchargers and when they open for Tesla they aren't for CCS cars. Maybe they just want to wait a few weeks or months?

 

[scottf200]

Too bad most (all?) of those aren't amiable to CCS cars. At least not yet. I've been following the openings of superchargers and when they open for Tesla they aren't for CCS cars. Maybe they just want to wait a few weeks or months?

Tesla service tech have to update (add?) some hardware to make them CCS compatible. They have 10s of 1000s of man-hours into that already. The v3 superchargers are going in so fast and there is existing hardware out in the field at the install companies. Branden Flasch has talked about this (he is in that industry).

 

[emoore]

Tesla service tech have to update (add?) some hardware to make them CCS compatible. They have 10s of 1000s of man-hours into that already. The v3 superchargers are going in so fast and there is existing hardware out in the field at the install companies. Branden Flasch has talked about this (he is in that industry).

Yeah I heard that too. But I don't understand why would they have to do that with brand new ones? If they do it's pretty poor planning.

 

[scottf200]

Yeah I heard that too. But I don't understand why would they have to do that with brand new ones? If they do it's pretty poor planning.

Seriously ... there are 1000s in play across the USA. It is complicated logistics that you are not appreciating at all. It is better to get as many as possible installed and in use as quick as possible. Geez. There are 100s times more Teslas at this point in time that can use them in their current state.

 

[emoore]

Seriously ... there are 1000s in play across the USA. It is complicated logistics that you are not appreciating at all. It is better to get as many as possible installed and in use as quick as possible. Geez. There are 100s times more Teslas at this point in time that can use them in their current state.

I understand it's a lot. What I'm saying is why the brand new stations need hardware upgrades in the first place. Should be installed at the factory or onsite before they are installed and turned on.

 

[scottf200]

I understand it's a lot. What I'm saying is why the brand new stations need hardware upgrades in the first place. Should be installed at the factory or onsite before they are installed and turned on.

It could have been manufactured many months in advance so it is better to get them out and installed and in use. This seems like an obvious thing based on the goals and pace they are trying to get them installed for the primary customer base of Tesla vehicles. This seems logical and practical.

 

[Cosmacelf]

In my unsolicited opinion, Tesla is already 'getting their way' insofar as the world is 'adopting' their standard. If they're concerned about congestion at their superchargers, they should build them heretofore to accommodate the maximum use cases (optimize the spaces, the size of the spaces, the distances from the chargers, and the cables themselves to 'reach.')

They are. New Superchargers will have longer cords and placed in the middle the parking spot to allow anyone to charge.

The problem is the 15,000 existing charging stalls. It took Tesla 10 years to get to that many in North America, it'll take a long while to build out new and replacement stations.

Rivian would be completely stupid to not accommodate the most reliable and ubiquitous charging network in their new builds.

 

[scottf200]

The problem is the 15,000 existing charging stalls. It took Tesla 10 years to get to that many in North America, it'll take a long while to build out new and replacement stations.

Rivian would be completely stupid to not accommodate the most reliable and ubiquitous charging network in their new builds.

As well there are 100s of v3 Tesla Superchargers *still* going in weekly as can be watched here:
https://supercharge.info/changes

 

[R1Thor]

Rivian would be completely stupid to not accommodate the most reliable and ubiquitous charging network in their new builds.

Well. That's a pretty hardened stance to take on that. Rivian has their reasons, and they're primarily economical and (Engineering) efficiency. And notwithstanding, Rivian isn't the ONLY manufacturer. Do we believe everyone else will conform?

It could've been prudent from Tesla's standpoint (if they don't want to retrofit/upgrade existing stations or provide alternative options) to 'mandate' during their offer for others to join them that they also standardize charging locations, but they didn't. Maybe it was afterthought. Maybe they didn't want to add a larger barrier to entry.

And even insofar as Tesla is currently the best, and may be for the foreseeable future, I'm sure we'll see others come to the table.

I guess we'll just have to see what happens!

And regarding the sensationalism regarding the 'completely stupid...' We'll just have to agree to disagree on that!

 

[COdogman]

They are. New Superchargers will have longer cords and placed in the middle the parking spot to allow anyone to charge.

The problem is the 15,000 existing charging stalls. It took Tesla 10 years to get to that many in North America, it'll take a long while to build out new and replacement stations.

Rivian would be completely stupid to not accommodate the most reliable and ubiquitous charging network in their new builds.

And what was Tesla's plan for the more than 15,000 existing EVs from the manufacturers they opened up to?

So far it's their lead engineer encouraging folks to call us "jerks" for something we cannot control since we already have vehicles with ports in a location he doesn't like.

 

[JayinNJ]

Wow.

1. I'm impressed.

2. Have you ever thought of getting a girlfriend?

I ran it through an AI summary tool. Took two seconds.

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