Kim Java’s posing shatters glass pano roof…

[opnwide]

I think it’s a Tell that they had two replacement glass panels in stock and both cracked and had to order a third.

I realize the R1S has two glass roof panels, anyone know for sure that the larger front panel on the R1S is the exact same interchangeable glass panel they use on the R1T?

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[SlaterGS]

Many seem to be conveniently forgetting that there seem to be more documented cases where glass breaking is occurring even when pressure is not applied.

A few examples and a number of others on Reddit:
Found Upon First Delivery:
After spraying to wash: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/cracked-roof-glass.6609/
After Service: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/roof-applique-flew-off-panoramic-roof-cracked.7773/

On top of these, just looking at what started this thread, Kim points out in her video that they broke multiple replacement glass panels and other members that have had to have theirs replaced have said similar.
I'm not passing 100% of the blame on Rivian, but my goodness some of you want to give them a pass on everything.

 

[crashmtb]

Is the roof glass made by fuyao too?

I wonder if it’s not made to spec.

 

[the long way downunder]

At the risk of repeating myself over and over, I'll say it again - we need a 3rd party to offer a carbon fiber replacement panel for the glass. BimmerWorld sells them for the E46 series (1997 - 2006 3 series bimmers). $419. I would not think twice about replacing the glass with one of these if my glass crackeed.

if/when the glass breaks, if/when Rivian says "here's the estimate to replace" then I'd much rather go with a fat sandwich of some lightweight composite material, preferably removable, to reduce weight and reject heat, maybe even a little better cabin noise absorption.
If Rivian offered it as a pay-for-it retrofit, I'd pay to have removable roof panels that stow in the frunk or stack in the bed against the front.

 

[moosehead]

Glass aside, still do not understand how anyone would allow some rando to drive their Rivian, let alone borrow it for a day, or, gasp, sit on your . . . . roof.

Gasp, ass on glass.

 

[Zoidz]

Many seem to be conveniently forgetting that there seem to be more documented cases where glass breaking is occurring even when pressure is not applied.

A few examples and a number of others on Reddit:
Found Upon First Delivery:
After spraying to wash: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/cracked-roof-glass.6609/
After Service: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/roof-applique-flew-off-panoramic-roof-cracked.7773/

On top of these, just looking at what started this thread, Kim points out in her video that they broke multiple replacement glass panels and other members that have had to have theirs replaced have said similar.
I'm not passing 100% of the blame on Rivian, but my goodness some of you want to give them a pass on everything.

I can't ever recall hearing about or reading online in other automotive forums where where a pano roof cracked by no pressure or applying moderate hand pressure, as has been reported by one or two Rivian owners. I'm sure it's out there, but not common. Now we are getting weekly reports of this with 10,000 Rivians delivered? That's concerning.

 

[DJG]

@DJG "I've found that not leaving the vehicle exposed is the best way to prevent hail damage. Has never failed me, I've never had a vehicle hit by hail using this method and I live in an area that has above average frequency and severity of hail."



DJG seems to be an expert at everything, even weather advice Either he lives in a cave or is a BOT. Not sure how you can live somewhere that allows you to seek cover for your vehicle as a practice. I'm in MN and sometimes the only time you know hail is coming is when you hear it.

Clearly it was somewhat tongue in cheek, but I don't see what's so controversial. I stated something about my own experience, which is 100% factual. I didn't say that it would work for 100% of people in 100% of cases. I've never encountered a scenario where hail just randomly fell out of the sky without warning, I've always known it was coming (or at least had probability of coming) a few hours in advance if not the day before. Sleet, sure, that's hard to predict. We get measurable hail perhaps a few times a year. That's my experience, but it's not everyone's experience.

So, I've always been able to plan around it. One time I had the wife drive me to work. One time I drove the car we can't keep in the garage to a nearby office building that has carports. One time I drove home from work to park in garage and work from home.

The other point I made still stands, that in the event you can't avoid it, we're still talking about the chance that there is hail that is significant enough to crack the roof, but not significant enough to damage any other part of the car. It could happen, but it's also very likely you're seeing widespread damage anyway, in which case the roof really doesn't matter. So, if you want to drill down to it, we're debating the probability that you a) have hail that you can't avoid, b) is large enough to do damage, c) only damages the roof and nothing else and d) that the Rivian roof will be damaged in conditions that another vehicle wouldn't. And if all of that happens, you are out your Comprehensive deductible.

For me, if I take (d) as a given, my expectation is that there is a very slight chance of incurring a $500 deductible over the next 10 years (but empirically would not have happened in the last 10 years, or even 20). That's the basis for my assessment, and anyone is free to critique it. For someone that gets golf ball sized hail at random without warning once a week and doesn't carry Comprehensive coverage, their analysis may very well yield a different result.

 

[miasm]

I've never encountered a scenario where hail just randomly fell out of the sky without warning, I've always known it was coming (or at least had probability of coming) a few hours in advance if not the day before.

Here in New Mexico for monsoon season, you have a non-zero chance of hail multiple times a week, for....like 4-6 months. It can be not a cloud in the sky at 9am, and glass shattering hail at 1pm. Start a drive to a nearby town in perfectly clear skies, small chance of thunderstorms later that evening then the storm move in quicker than forecasted and hail nailing you on the drive.

I guess I live in a place where I just don't understand how you think that you can go through life dodging hail easily. I've been caught out in dozens of hail storms. Do you just not commute home if there's a chance of hail? I've hit hail many, many times on my commute home...and to wait it out would be waiting until after sunset when the thermal convection that feeds the hail storm dies down.

That also said, I have had a bit of hail on my R1T's glass roof without it shattering, so this thread feels a bit ridiculous with people thinking it's super fragile. Installing glass in such a way to evenly distribute the stresses is hard. Making glass an integral part of a truck frame is very hard, given all the flex you expect, and getting defect free glass is also hard. I don't know what is failing where, but my guess is a combo between slightly off installation tolerances causing extra stress on the glass than planned, or bad glass batches, or both.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

The other point I made still stands, that in the event you can't avoid it, we're still talking about the chance that there is hail that is significant enough to crack the roof, but not significant enough to damage any other part of the car. It could happen, but it's also very likely you're seeing widespread damage anyway, in which case the roof really doesn't matter. So, if you want to drill down to it, we're debating the probability that you a) have hail that you can't avoid, b) is large enough to do damage, c) only damages the roof and nothing else and d) that the Rivian roof will be damaged in conditions that another vehicle wouldn't. And if all of that happens, you are out your Comprehensive deductible.

For me, if I take (d) as a given, my expectation is that there is a very slight chance of incurring a $500 deductible over the next 10 years (but empirically would not have happened in the last 10 years, or even 20). That's the basis for my assessment, and anyone is free to critique it. For someone that gets golf ball sized hail at random without warning once a week and doesn't carry Comprehensive coverage, their analysis may very well yield a different result.

Not really eager to enter the dragons den again, but here goes. I agree with your analysis.

For everyone else... Here are my three wishes.

- Stronger roof glass
-The same acoustic multi-layer glass on the front doors, but also on the back doors and rear window. Two reasons, better acoustic dampening. Second, watching the break in video, the girls took forever trying to get through the passenger front mult layered glass, but a couple good smacks on the rear, and they were in. Similarly with Sandy loading blocks into their teardown R1T and the rear glass imploding. Would be nice for added peace of mind in case something is left in my vehicle overnight by mistake. Vancouver and auto break-ins seemingly go hand in hand.

And lastly, opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one. That said, we don't need to turn these discussions into an EV Cold War. I can be guilty of getting heated at times, but will do my part as well and take a chill pill. Productive dialog will help focus improvement on these vehicles to the areas of most concern within the community, especially those living under chestnut trees.

Bonus wish?
My Max pack R1T before my 4 year preorder anniversary, which gives Rivian time to get it to me for my 40th brithday (May 17th)... just saying in case the Rivian overlords are skimming this.

 

[Surferdude]

It's interesting how everyone here is talking about hail but to me this is the least of my concerns. People get tiny dings on roofs all the time from various things. Something as simple as a modest sized tree branch falling on your roof or someone accidentally throwing/hitting a baseball/softball/golfball etc or having cargo that accidentally shifts and falls between the racks in the loading process, etc etc can end up in a costly and necessary visit to the dealer for a replacement. Vs just getting a tiny ding you can live with.

I guess some feel it's worth the countless downsides of a glass roof (glare/unwanted light, heat gain, discomfort, higher energy consumption , louder interior, overhead visual distractions, tippy-toeing rack loading, more cleaning, lower headroom at the glass transition, less safety for occupants in hail storm/rollover accident/falling objects in storm, more fragile etc etc) so they can see the stars at night when laying down in their trucks.

 

[bd5400]

I can't ever recall hearing about or reading online in other automotive forums where where a pano roof cracked by no pressure or applying moderate hand pressure, as has been reported by one or two Rivian owners. I'm sure it's out there, but not common. Now we are getting weekly reports of this with 10,000 Rivians delivered? That's concerning.

Have you gone looking? Because there are reports/complaints about broken roofs on Taycans, Mach Es, Model 3s, etc. Most of the Taycan complaints are from rock chips or the vehicle arriving to the dealer with a broken roof. Others, such as the Model 3 and Mach E have plenty of complaints where owners complain that nothing caused the break.

Examples:
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/panoramic-roof-stone-chips.5887/

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/crack-in-roof-too-risky-to-drive.6629/

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...had-a-ct-arrive-with-broken-roof-glass.12197/

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/electric-vehicle-owners-dismayed-broken-and-cracked-glass-roofs/amp

https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/model-y-cracked-roof.18165/

https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/cracked-roof-glass-problem.11752/

It’s fine to be disappointed about the realities of having a glass roof, but this is not an issue specific to Rivian.

 

[Craigins]

I've never encountered a scenario where hail just randomly fell out of the sky without warning, I've always known it was coming (or at least had probability of coming) a few hours in advance if not the day before. Sleet, sure, that's hard to predict. We get measurable hail perhaps a few times a year. That's my experience, but it's not everyone's experience.

You preface it quite nicely, but hearing some people require a 3 hour trip to the nearest service center means that some trucks are out in the middle of nowhere.

When you're located in a highly populated area, the weather prediction is much better than the middle of nowhere. When I go up to northern Wisconsin, the closest NOAA station is Green Bay, which is hours away. Our weather forecast is pretty much a roll of the dice since they don't have the detailed data that populated areas have.

That being said, where I live I rarely see hail and I've never seen hail large enough to damage vehicles. My worst hail damage was back in college, walking back from the cafeteria and it was ruining my ice cream, crunchy bits of hail mixed in with ice cream is no fun. Tree branches falling is a different story, and like you I've purposely moved vehicles away from trees when storms are predicted.

 

[DJG]

Here in New Mexico for monsoon season, you have a non-zero chance of hail multiple times a week, for....like 4-6 months. It can be not a cloud in the sky at 9am, and glass shattering hail at 1pm. Start a drive to a nearby town in perfectly clear skies, small chance of thunderstorms later that evening then the storm move in quicker than forecasted and hail nailing you on the drive.

I guess I live in a place where I just don't understand how you think that you can go through life dodging hail easily. I've been caught out in dozens of hail storms. Do you just not commute home if there's a chance of hail? I've hit hail many, many times on my commute home...and to wait it out would be waiting until after sunset when the thermal convection that feeds the hail storm dies down.

That also said, I have had a bit of hail on my R1T's glass roof without it shattering, so this thread feels a bit ridiculous with people thinking it's super fragile. Installing glass in such a way to evenly distribute the stresses is hard. Making glass an integral part of a truck frame is very hard, given all the flex you expect, and getting defect free glass is also hard. I don't know what is failing where, but my guess is a combo between slightly off installation tolerances causing extra stress on the glass than planned, or bad glass batches, or both.

Yes, clearly we have different environments so you have different risks to consider. The Midwest in particular is far different from TX, but so is NM apparently.

Yes, if golf ball or bigger sized ice bombs are falling from the sky, I'm not going to get in my car and drive through it. I'll wait it out, which is typically not that long, maybe 15-30 minutes or less in my experience where I live. But if it were an hour or more, I'd wait an hour or more. There's nothing in daily life worth driving through damage inducing hail for. All of it can wait. I sure would like to see the after images of an example where golf ball size hail fell for over an hour though. There would be ice balls piled two feet high. They'd make for good whiskey ice while you wait though.

But again, my experience is not everyone's.

 

[Quattro Powers]

I miss the old-fashioned moonroof & sunroof, at least offer a shade. I always wear a cap when I’m driving a Tesla. As for the glass cracking, that’s why there’s duct tape. ?

 

[Speedrye]

I would like a solid roof also. I thought I read somewhere one reason manufacturers were going towards glass roofs was it was actually cheaper/easier, because less welds were involved. I didn’t believe it then, but that’s what I read somewhere. It is possible if it’s all glass compared to metal+sunroof, since a sunroof has more moving parts. But I agree, I would just rather have a metal roof, no glass, no sunroof.

I think a big factor is access for the welding/painting robots. Sure is easy for them to just reach through a big hole in the roof to spot weld/spray what is needed and then glue a panel on top when it's done. Closing that in with a solid metal roof would change the whole manufacturing process. As such, I'll be agreeable and let them glue in a nice carbon fiber panel instead. I'd prefer it to have a headliner on the bottom, but again, I'm agreeable and would accept the carbon fiber look on the inside as well. If they want to make one large panel that's removable, I'm not opposed to that either.

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