Max Pack worth it for towing?

[Dark-Fx]

Trying to tow in conserve would destroy the front tires I'm sure ?. I haven't tried it. The truck knows your towing when you connect the trailer plug.

It won't let you, bumps the truck out of conserve mode after plugging in.

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[Zoidz]

I think you're agreeing with me, then? I was stating that the downside to driving a Ramcharger (which uses an onboard gas-powered generator to produce electricity) is burning fossil fuel.

Yes, essentially agreeing with you. Any EV, hybrid or BEV, is more efficient than a ICE. That also goes for the Ramcharger. While it is burning fossil fuel to produce electricity to power the truck, that is still more efficient than a pure ICE.

 

[Enjen]

Yes, essentially agreeing with you. Any EV, hybrid or BEV, is more efficient than a ICE. That also goes for the Ramcharger. While it is burning fossil fuel to produce electricity to power the truck, that is still more efficient than a pure ICE.

Ah, gotcha. I was comparing Rivian to the Ramcharger. You were comparing Ramcharger to ICE.

While the Ramcharger should burn less fossil fuels than ICE (to your point), it still burns more than the Rivian (my point)!

 

[rhumbliner]

If my local energy was produced by 100% coal power plants, I don't think I'd be buying an EV, personally.

You’re overlooking the fact that even coal powered electricity pollutes less than burning gasoline. And, when that coal powered plant is replaced by some renewable source of electricity then instantly all those EV’s become less polluting.

 

[Enjen]

You’re overlooking the fact that even coal powered electricity pollutes less than burning gasoline. And, when that coal powered plant is replaced by some renewable source of electricity then instantly all those EV’s become less polluting.

Well, I wouldn't agree I'm overlooking that. Rather, I'm just not sure I'd feel the carbon reduction would be enough to justify the capital cost of the EV. I stress "personally".... as per my last post.

I agree with your points though!

 

[KootenayEV]

I've put my thoughts in a blog post previously (scroll to the bottom) - since I wrote it, the difference in pack size has become smaller until it was actually confirmed by Rivian themselves a few days ago to be only 10kWh (as referenced further up thread). The remaining interesting bit is the speculation around the silicon-carbide inverter in the rear as well on the Max pack, but for my situation it still wouldn't have changed it materially, as towing is my primary range constraint. I do wish they had managed the original 180 kWh pack!

I have only towed my 2015 Airstream 20FB Flying Cloud twice, both back in September '23:

Both trips worked out to exactly 2.04 km/kWh (1.28 miles/kWh) and each was around 550km round trip. Both had some fairly large mountain passes - total elevation round trip gain/loss about 3500m on trip 1 and 3000m on trip 2 (9900 - 11550ft).

First trip was warmer at around 20C during driving conditions, but a wicked headwind for about half-way home of 30-40km/h; driving speed 100km/h (speed limit) for the most part, with some sections at 90km/h, dry roads. Longest leg was pretty short actually, only about 160km - didn't track exact energy usage.

Second trip was cooler at around 10C; driving speed had more 90 sections, but still a fair amount at 100. Longest leg was 244km, using 106 kWh at 2.29 km/kWh - however, it had some slower legs and a net elevation loss of 400m. Least efficient leg was 138km, using 72.5 kWh at 1.91 km/kWh - no net change in elevation, but 1100m mountain pass - light headwind.

Both trips we had 4 bikes in the box hanging over the tailgate.

I expected lower efficiency based on blog posts I had seen here, but I think people drive faster in the US on the boring interstates. (I guess we did too the one time we drove to Ontario in our Model 3 - 120-135km/h most of the trip!) I don't really expect to tow much faster than that though.

I've got a few ideas on how to make my Airstream more "streamy" - we'll see if I get time to do those this year or not. We have a few road trips planned this year which I'll document well to continue gathering data before we do a big trip to Utah/Nevada next spring break and into April - really looking forward to that one! (We were originally planning this spring, but decided to wait for SuperCharger access and a few more chargers to be built to provide more access to areas we want to visit over the 4-5 weeks.)

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

It won't let you, bumps the truck out of conserve mode after plugging in.

Makes sense they would do that. I imagine its similar on the DM in that it would prevent disengagement of the rear motor.

 

[JamuJoe]

Is the R1T's Max Pack worth the additional cost? Will be towing a Basecamp 16X yearly down to Tucson and back from ND and twice to the west coast and back from ND. Have CT reservation, but need a topper. Will outfit the R1T with Flated topper (https://getflated.com) since I only need the topper during these long trips.

In my experience, yes. I had pre-increase pricing for a R1T dual motor performance max pack due to my early pre-order. I tow a 28’ Airstream, and our first trip was 3800 miles from home in CO thru NM, TX, LA, MS, then west to AZ and finally back home. Charging stations were scarce on this route, and I appreciated the max range. We routinely charged overnight in campgrounds, and used DCFC en route on long days. This is hands down the best tow vehicle I’ve ever used (I also have a RAM 2500 HD Cummins). The truck will be great with your Basecamp.

I did that trip with my DIY tonneau with a cargo basket on the crossbars, and now have a Flated topper on the way as we prepare for another long trip to WA.

 

[rbrak29]

In my experience, yes. I had pre-increase pricing for a R1T dual motor performance max pack due to my early pre-order. I tow a 28’ Airstream, and our first trip was 3800 miles from home in CO thru NM, TX, LA, MS, then west to AZ and finally back home. Charging stations were scarce on this route, and I appreciated the max range. We routinely charged overnight in campgrounds, and used DCFC en route on long days. This is hands down the best tow vehicle I’ve ever used (I also have a RAM 2500 HD Cummins). The truck will be great with your Basecamp.

I did that trip with my DIY tonneau with a cargo basket on the crossbars, and now have a Flated topper on the way as we prepare for another long trip to WA.

Thanks for the insight. I rented a R1T from Turo. What I do not like about the Rivian is no driver assist while towing. I have a F150 with Blue Cruise. I have lane centering and adaptive cruise while towing.

 

[JamuJoe]

Thanks for the insight. I rented a R1T from Turo. What I do not like about the Rivian is no driver assist while towing. I have a F150 with Blue Cruise. I have lane centering and adaptive cruise while towing.

I hear you, but honestly, when towing my 8000 lb trailer on a ball hitch, I want to be in full manual control. Jerky movements when towing (like lane centering) are just not good, especially in poor traction conditions.

Safe Travels

 

[rbrak29]

In my experience, yes. I had pre-increase pricing for a R1T dual motor performance max pack due to my early pre-order. I tow a 28’ Airstream, and our first trip was 3800 miles from home in CO thru NM, TX, LA, MS, then west to AZ and finally back home. Charging stations were scarce on this route, and I appreciated the max range. We routinely charged overnight in campgrounds, and used DCFC en route on long days. This is hands down the best tow vehicle I’ve ever used (I also have a RAM 2500 HD Cummins). The truck will be great with your Basecamp.

I did that trip with my DIY tonneau with a cargo basket on the crossbars, and now have a Flated topper on the way as we prepare for another long trip to WA.

Let me know how the Flated topper works for you.

 

[kylealden]

Thanks for the insight. I rented a R1T from Turo. What I do not like about the Rivian is no driver assist while towing. I have a F150 with Blue Cruise. I have lane centering and adaptive cruise while towing.

Fully agreed on this - I really think they should enable adaptive cruise (with adjusted following distances) while towing. If anything it seems more dangerous to disable it because of potential mode confusion for drivers. (I don't think they need to enable the full Driver+ suite, just adaptive cruise).

I also find it bewildering that when the radars/cameras are blocked (e.g. from icing/snow), they fully disable cruise (not just adaptive). Really can't make up their minds on the safe fallback states.

 

[rbrak29]

Fully agreed on this - I really think they should enable adaptive cruise (with adjusted following distances) while towing. If anything it seems more dangerous to disable it because of potential mode confusion for drivers. (I don't think they need to enable the full Driver+ suite, just adaptive cruise).

I also find it bewildering that when the radars/cameras are blocked (e.g. from icing/snow), they fully disable cruise (not just adaptive). Really can't make up their minds on the safe fallback states.

This is the main reason I am debating even going with Rivian. The size is perfect for us, maybe a little small as far as bed dimensions. I just received an email from GM that I can order the RST First Edition. Bigger truck, more money, but way more towing tech than Rivian. Super Cruise available WHILE towing. Not to mention 800V 350kW charging, four wheel steering, and the midgate.

 

[Enjen]

In my experience, yes. I had pre-increase pricing for a R1T dual motor performance max pack due to my early pre-order. I tow a 28’ Airstream, and our first trip was 3800 miles from home in CO thru NM, TX, LA, MS, then west to AZ and finally back home. Charging stations were scarce on this route, and I appreciated the max range. We routinely charged overnight in campgrounds, and used DCFC en route on long days. This is hands down the best tow vehicle I’ve ever used (I also have a RAM 2500 HD Cummins). The truck will be great with your Basecamp.

I did that trip with my DIY tonneau with a cargo basket on the crossbars, and now have a Flated topper on the way as we prepare for another long trip to WA.

Hi @JamuJoe, wondering if you can share what efficiency numbers and/or range you were seeing with the dual motor max pack?

I've seen a couple other posts of folks pulling airstreams with DM max pack indicating a range of 200 miles. That far exceeds the meager 11 kwh increase in battery, so I'm wondering if the max pack front/rear motor configuration is contributing to much better towing efficiency than the DM large pack and the Quad. Or.... Maybe the other folks aren't really achieving 200 mile range but are being deceived by inaccurate estimates in the software.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I just received an email from GM that I can order the RST First Edition. Bigger truck, more money, but way more towing tech than Rivian. Super Cruise available WHILE towing. Not to mention 800V 350kW charging, four wheel steering, and the midgate.

I decided to cancel my RST in part because charging while towing is going to be a pain in the ass if I have to unhook every time. Can't use superchargers that don't have pull-through with the port at the back of the truck. Would rather have to stop more often than deal with that.

The situation is likely to improve in the future, but I can revisit it in a few years if I decide I want to. Right now RAN is pretty much perfect for the trips we will take this year and probably next as well.

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