Newbie charging option question

[yellowfever]

Any car can charge with a Rivian charger, it's not brand-specific.

I learn something everyday. Didn't know it could be used by other EVs.

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[Electrified Outdoors]

I learn something everyday. Didn't know it could be used by other EVs.

BUT...why the heck would you want another EV when you can have a Rivian? ??

 

[Southern R1S]

At the risk of hijacking OP's thread, I'm also a new EV owner (took delivery of our R1S Monday) and have a few related questions if someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction:

• We just built a new house and had a 240v outlet installed in the garage along with a 60-amp breaker (I know zero about electrical so hopefully that is explained correctly).
  • Is there any downside / degradation issues in the immediate term to just using the included Rivian portable (slow) charger to that 240 outlet until I get a permanent charger installed?
  • As a follow-up, has anyone seen data on the power loss when using the portable charger? I've read through a bunch of threads but can't seem to find anything pinpointing the expected loss for using that (though I would guess it's in the ~25% range).
• My power provider gives a flat $500 rebate for buying / installing an EV charger. I bought the Rivian wall charger with the R1S at the grandfathered $500 price but have debated returning it and getting something with more smart features (particularly, something that can better monitor power loss between the wall and the truck).
  • Any suggestions on a better / more capable option around the $500 price point?
  • Other than 40a vs 48a charge speeds, any differences in charge speed, are there any significant or long-term upsides or downsides to doing a 240v plug-in unit (which, if I understand correctly, will max out at 40amp even on a 60-amp breaker) vs. hardwiring for 48amps?

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Several EVSE's do not require a GFCI upstream from the breaker (it's very specific in the manuals, I know Grizzl-E and JuiceBox have this clarification).

I learn something everyday. Didn't know it could be used by other EVs.

Yeah, there's two specs for L1/L2 (AC) charging: J1772 and Tesla The J spec is used by everybody else and it's totally cross brand compatible. Tesla supplies a little adapter so a Tesla can also use that spec charger(there are 3rd party to go the other way too).

For DCFC, i.e, DC Fast Charging CCS1 (US and other markets), CCS2 (UK, etc.), a couple of Asian market specs, and then the older DC specs like CHAdeMO (that we don't talk about ... kind of like Fight Club ...) - and then Tesla (aka, NACS). For the US you're really looking at CCS1 vs. Tesla.

Interestingly, Teslas have an adapter available so they can use CCS, and Tesla will be opening Superchargers up to non-Tesla by way of a station with that's called a Magic Dock (which is basically a Tesla-to-CCS built in adapter).

More semi-worthless info

The L2 "charger" at your house is really not a charger, it's an EVSE, it's basically an AC switch, when you're feeding an EV AC power, it uses an internal charger to actually supply the batteries (the traction/EVBs). Vehicles have an internal charger spec rating (including PHEVs).

When you're using a DCFC charger, the power is being supplied directly into the batteries, at a rate that's much higher than the onboard AC>>DC charger, so you get those big charging specs like 250kW vs. an AC charger at 10kW.

 

[MIG]

Several EVSE's do not require a GFCI upstream from the breaker (it's very specific in the manuals, I know Grizzl-E and JuiceBox have this clarification).

My plug-in Autel runs at 50A (48A) and does not require a GFCI.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

My plug-in Autel runs at 50A (48A) and does not require a GFCI.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that MOST of them don't have that need (outside of like an L1 using a 5-15).

 

[Dark-Fx]

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that MOST of them don't have that need (outside of like an L1 using a 5-15).

Internal ground fault protection is actually a requirement of any charger that uses J1772. Cars are supposed to check that there is a real ground available prior to starting the full charge. Having multiple ground fault protection circuits in-line is what causes issues because the ground test can cause them to trip because of extra resistance on the line.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

That's an implied HELPFUL reaction even though it's not an option

The reason I mentioned it is because having a plug-in EVSE was being discussed and the "need" for a GFCI as an increased cost , but clearly, that's not the case.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Internal ground fault protection is actually a requirement of any charger that uses J1772. Cars are supposed to check that there is a real ground available prior to starting the full charge. Having multiple ground fault protection circuits in-line is what causes issues because the ground test can cause them to trip because of extra resistance on the line.

Exactly this. The GFCI is required for any "outlet". The charger has it built in and by having the 14-50 that also requires protection upstream of the charger because you have two readily accessible outlets. Hence the issue I mention.

When hard wired the only readily accessible outlets is the plug that plugs into the car which is already protected by the built-in GFCI.

 

[WSea]

That's an implied HELPFUL reaction even though it's not an option

The reason I mentioned it is because having a plug-in EVSE was being discussed and the "need" for a GFCI as an increased cost , but clearly, that's not the case.

But a 14-50 receptacle for evse does require a pricey GFCI breaker!

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

It requires the breaker because there

But a 14-50 receptacle for evse does require a pricey GFCI breaker!

Right! Either the outlet or the circuit must be protected. Since there aren't any 14-50 GFCI receptacle the circuit requires a GFCI breaker.

 

[WSea]

It requires the breaker because there

Right! Either the outlet or the circuit must be protected. Since there aren't any 14-50 GFCI receptacle the circuit requires a GFCI breaker.

Well because the NEC

 

[MaskedRacerX]

But a 14-50 receptacle for evse does require a pricey GFCI breaker!

Heck our 50a circuit (N6-50) install, all parts labor was only $220 *

I guess my point was that there’s not really a notable price difference in a hardwired vs. a receptacle install, so that’s not really a big factor in choosing one over the other.

Some people want the ease of swapping out the EVSE some want one less failure point (and possibly a higher amp circuit).

* Full disclosure, I did replace the original receptacle with a much higher grade / commercial spec a few months later.

 

[Aag12]

At the risk of hijacking OP's thread, I'm also a new EV owner (took delivery of our R1S Monday) and have a few related questions if someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction:

• We just built a new house and had a 240v outlet installed in the garage along with a 60-amp breaker (I know zero about electrical so hopefully that is explained correctly).
  • Is there any downside / degradation issues in the immediate term to just using the included Rivian portable (slow) charger to that 240 outlet until I get a permanent charger installed?
  • As a follow-up, has anyone seen data on the power loss when using the portable charger? I've read through a bunch of threads but can't seem to find anything pinpointing the expected loss for using that (though I would guess it's in the ~25% range).
• My power provider gives a flat $500 rebate for buying / installing an EV charger. I bought the Rivian wall charger with the R1S at the grandfathered $500 price but have debated returning it and getting something with more smart features (particularly, something that can better monitor power loss between the wall and the truck).
  • Any suggestions on a better / more capable option around the $500 price point?
  • Other than 40a vs 48a charge speeds, any differences in charge speed, are there any significant or long-term upsides or downsides to doing a 240v plug-in unit (which, if I understand correctly, will max out at 40amp even on a 60-amp breaker) vs. hardwiring for 48amps?

1) 60amp breaker on the 240v (assuming it's a nema 14-50) is not to code. It should be 50amp. That being said they're giving you wiggle room so you can hard wire a 48amp charger
1a) you can use the 240v connection for the portable charger. The rivian portable charger is 32amp,so well within limits. That being said, you will want to ensure the actual plug receptacle is built fo ev charging. A lot of the plugs are built for dryers or devices that use power for shorts amount of time. An ev uses power for hours on end and may melt the receptacle. Many people use this type of plug without issues, but there are plenty that have issues. It's a fire hazard that can can remediate very very easily. There are tons of YouTube videos on this. I went to grainger and bought a generic industrial plug.
1b) unsure on power loss

I'm not an electrician just did some research. So excuse me if the terms are not accurate

 

[WSea]

1) 60amp breaker on the 240v (assuming it's a nema 14-50) is not to code. It should be 50amp. That being said they're giving you wiggle room so you can hard wire a 48amp charger
1a) you can use the 240v connection for the portable charger. The rivian portable charger is 32amp,so well within limits. That being said, you will want to ensure the actual plug receptacle is built fo ev charging. A lot of the plugs are built for dryers or devices that use power for shorts amount of time. An ev uses power for hours on end and may melt the receptacle. Many people use this type of plug without issues, but there are plenty that have issues. It's a fire hazard that can can remediate very very easily. There are tons of YouTube videos on this. I went to grainger and bought a generic industrial plug.
1b) unsure on power loss

I'm not an electrician just did some research. So excuse me if the terms are not accurate

48amp charger needs a 60amp breaker and the proper wire size

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