Prospective Buyer - Coming from Ford

[mpshizzle]

Hey all! I currently daily a Mustang Mach E. I LOVE that car, but it's got it's fare share of shortcomings. Very much a Gen 1 EV. Great looks, nice interior only OK tech.

R1 gen 2 has my attention. Rivian seems to do tech well, they're much nicer to spend time in than any Tesla BUT here's my question:

Coming from Ford BlueCruise, will Rivian Driver+ annoy me?

Blue cruise 101 for those that don't know:
-Lane centering and stop & go on any road with lines.
-Hands free mode and lane changes available on pre-mapped divided highways (most every major highway you can think of). Interchanges included.

I rented an R1S in the Austin area last summer and it made me fall in love with Rivian. But I HATED my driver + experience. I swear I got the thing to work for a max of 10 minutes at a time. The whole rest of the time was constant "unavailable on this road", "take over for interchange", "unavailable for no reason".

What is it state of things now? Is that how it normally is? Have they made any changes? What's on the road map ahead? As it stands now, driver + is not a deal breaker for me. But it's one step short.

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[SANZC02]

Hey all! I currently daily a Mustang Mach E. I LOVE that car, but it's got it's fare share of shortcomings. Very much a Gen 1 EV. Great looks, nice interior only OK tech.

R1 gen 2 has my attention. Rivian seems to do tech well, they're much nicer to spend time in than any Tesla BUT here's my question:

Coming from Ford BlueCruise, will Rivian Driver+ annoy me?

Blue cruise 101 for those that don't know:
-Lane centering and stop & go on any road with lines.
-Hands free mode and lane changes available on pre-mapped divided highways (most every major highway you can think of). Interchanges included.

I rented an R1S in the Austin area last summer and it made me fall in love with Rivian. But I HATED my driver + experience. I swear I got the thing to work for a max of 10 minutes at a time. The whole rest of the time was constant "unavailable on this road", "take over for interchange", "unavailable for no reason".

What is it state of things now? Is that how it normally is? Have they made any changes? What's on the road map ahead? As it stands now, driver + is not a deal breaker for me. But it's one step short.

Probably if you use it a lot it may bother you today. The G2 does not sound like it is there yet but will probably catch up over time.

I have a G1, only use it on longer highway trips, it has improved a lot in the 1.5 years I have had it but in my opinion still lags behind the version 1 autopilot in my older Model S.

 

[mpshizzle]

Probably if you use it a lot it may bother you today. The G2 does not sound like it is there yet but will probably catch up over time.

I have a G1, only use it on longer highway trips, it has improved a lot in the 1.5 years I have had it but in my opinion still lags behind the version 1 autopilot in my older Model S.

Interesting that it still feels behind autopilot v1.. how likely do you think it is that Rivian will fulfill on the promises of what generation 2 will be? Do you think they will fulfill, and in a reasonable amount of time?

Based on what I'm seeing, driver +, from a hardware perspective gen 2 (and even gen 1 for that matter), is capable of far more than current blue Cruise hardware will ever be capable of. But I'm hesitant to buy on a promise of what could be, rather than what is a reality now.

And to answer your question, yes. I do use it a lot! 70,000 miles in 3 years on my Mustang Mach E. Most of that was interstate driving

 

[SANZC02]

Interesting that it still feels behind autopilot v1.. how likely do you think it is that Rivian will fulfill on the promises of what generation 2 will be? Do you think they will fulfill, and in a reasonable amount of time?

Based on what I'm seeing, driver +, from a hardware perspective gen 2 (and even gen 1 for that matter), is capable of far more than current blue Cruise hardware will ever be capable of. But I'm hesitant to buy on a promise of what could be, rather than what is a reality now.

I think they are probably close.

What in my opinion puts it behind Autopilot V1 is the Autopilot works on any highway that has stripes. Rivian only works on mapped roads it will drop on sections of roads where it is not mapped, that includes a lot of areas that were under construction when the specific road was mapped so it was skipped.

Where it is mapped, for me it works great, just the mapped road issue where it has no info and you have to take over.

 

[azbill]

I have a Mach E and an R1T. Driver + is way behind Bluecruise. I am guessing on my Gen 1, I will never see hands free.

There are three disappointments I have with the R1T, as compared to the Mach E:

1) Driver+
2) Nav system
3) Phone integration

 

[mpshizzle]

Where it is mapped, for me it works great, just the mapped road issue where it has no info and you have to take over.

I have a couple of friends with R1Ts and they say the same. This is why I'm really hoping for some kind of change to the hard stance on mapped roads only.

I have a Mach E and an R1T. Driver + is way behind Bluecruise. I am guessing on my Gen 1, I will never see hands free.

There are three disappointments I have with the R1T, as compared to the Mach E:

1) Driver+
2) Nav system
3) Phone integration

Oh hey, I recognize your name from the other forum!

1) When you are in a mapped area, how would you say lane tracking compares to blue cruise?

2) interesting... I actually have very few nice things to say about the mustang's nav system. When my connected nav expired I'd say it went from "somewhat acceptable" to "completely unusable"... Unless we are talking about nav via carplay/Android auto... Then I'm in love with it. What would you say you dislike about Rivian nav?

 

[HaveBlue]

I feel like Rivian generally follows through on promises where it can. They wouldn't have put upgraded nav hardware in the Gen 2 unless they had plans. Of course it's never fun to buy something on future promises. In your case the auto drive is really important to you. For me it's a novelty I care little about so I won't dare tell you what to do. I drove the early model 3 Tesla autopilot years ago and hated it. I was pleasantly surprised by driver+ but I still don't like it in heavy traffic.

 

[Surferdude]

Previous Lightning owner here. Driver+ isn't even remotely comparable to Bluecruise. Night and day difference. We never use Driver+ because it cant even do basic lane centering on any road we take it on. It is permanently off as it provides no value.

 

[azbill]

I have a couple of friends with R1Ts and they say the same. This is why I'm really hoping for some kind of change to the hard stance on mapped roads only.



Oh hey, I recognize your name from the other forum!

1) When you are in a mapped area, how would you say lane tracking compares to blue cruise?

2) interesting... I actually have very few nice things to say about the mustang's nav system. When my connected nav expired I'd say it went from "somewhat acceptable" to "completely unusable"... Unless we are talking about nav via carplay/Android auto... Then I'm in love with it. What would you say you dislike about Rivian nav?

1) For mapped roads lane keeping is pretty good on both, except Rivian is hands on. But the Rivian is really not good at transitions in and out of lane keeping. For example, when making lane changes with Bluecruise it is smooth re-engagement (I don't have the update for automatic), when the Rivian re-engages it is not always smooth, jerks the wheel a bit. Ford is silky smooth in transitions, never noticeable. Also when steering disengages on the Rivian (loss of mapped roads), there is the same issue, really jerky and sometimes drops everything, including adaptive cruise. The Ford is just going from hands free to hands on with a message, and it just keeps working with no noticeable transition at all.

2) The built in nav in the Rivian provides incorrect directions a lot for me, turns the wrong direction, or takes me on some route with u turns etc. The Ford built in nav is better AND with Ford you can use Apple or Google with Carplay. The map data on the Rivian is also not kept very up to date, as compared to Ford, Apple or Google. We have a lot of new roads in AZ popping up all the time, and the Rivian nav is not up to date. Also the Rivian live traffic is not always accurate, it seems to be better lately, but I cannot always trust it.

I added the EV Sportline Carplay display in my Rivian just for better phone integration (text messages via voice) and for Apple and Google maps.

 

[Swezey]

I hope Rivian is working diligently on vast improvements for their autonomous software on both Generations. Love my truck, but the self driving feature and even the "lane centering" rendering can be off when it's not in Driver+ mode when the lanes are narrow.

 

[SwampNut]

Coming from Ford BlueCruise, will Rivian Driver+ annoy me?

YES!!! I traded a Tesla M3LR for the R1T because we really needed a truck. I knew going in that I was going to lose a lot. I would absolutely never consider or recommend a Rivian over a Tesla, except for the truck part. And the Cyber Truck is impossible to get and stupidly priced for the launch edition. I spent 98% of my driving hands off letting the Tesla's basic AP handle it, nearly everywhere. This is such a huge step back.

That said, in perfectly marked and mapped locations, the Driver+ is a little more like enhanced AP with a bit more elegance than basic AP. So in certain situations it's a good experience and I find it slightly better. BUT!! It regularly has little oddities such as a location near me where two highways intersect, and it can't deal with it. So stupid. The traffic lanes are not affected, but it goes into "TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY!" If I ignore it, then it puts me into Driver+ jail and won't re-enable.

 

[Scoiatael]

I traded in my R1T for an F150 Lightning. Lightning currently has Blue Cruise 1.1 (I think). Where I live there are a ton of mapped roads both for Driver+ and Blue Cruise. Overall Blue Cruise is better, but only by a bit. Chances are your Mach E has Blue Cruise 1.2 which is supposed to be a significant upgrade from what the Lightning has, and Blue Cruise 1.4 is out for even newer cars which is supposed to be even better.

In terms of Driver+, it was fine for where I lived. There were a few trouble spots on freeways with painted lines and faded old painted lines still there. At night time Driver+ was always perfect for me, during the day is where I had some issues. The real question is, will gen 2 have better Driver assistance or is it just more fluff.

A few other things I would like to mention, having Waze is so much more useful than the Rivian nav. Rivian nav honestly is fine sometimes, and total garbage other times. Text messaging at least for me is also important. Using android auto to send texts is great. Rivian is supposed to add this feature, but they've been saying that for over a year now.

 

[smunro622]

I have a Mach E and an R1T. Driver + is way behind Bluecruise. I am guessing on my Gen 1, I will never see hands free.

There are three disappointments I have with the R1T, as compared to the Mach E:

1) Driver+
2) Nav system
3) Phone integration

Hard to compare AA or Carplay to this it isn't apples to apples..I do agree 2 sucks and 3 is terrible from a text/SMS POV...

I came from a Mach E also and BC had some issues, I would be long term on Rivian vs Ford.

 

[RexRemus]

Interesting that it still feels behind autopilot v1.. how likely do you think it is that Rivian will fulfill on the promises of what generation 2 will be? Do you think they will fulfill, and in a reasonable amount of time?

Based on what I'm seeing, driver +, from a hardware perspective gen 2 (and even gen 1 for that matter), is capable of far more than current blue Cruise hardware will ever be capable of. But I'm hesitant to buy on a promise of what could be, rather than what is a reality now.

And to answer your question, yes. I do use it a lot! 70,000 miles in 3 years on my Mustang Mach E. Most of that was interstate driving

It feels behind any 10+yr old vehicle with lane keeping assist that works anywhere.

I fear we may never actually get lane keeping on typical streets - at least for Gen1 which legit kinda sucks and is mind-boggling.


Gen2 probably will not be significantly better when it launches, but it at least seems to have the legs to enable all of the driving aids you'd expect in a 100k (or like... 35K these days) vehicle.

On mapped highways Driver+ is fine aside from issues others have mentioned here - clunky engage/disengage that always seems to make passengers look at you like WTF are you doing? and random 150ft stretches of unmapped road that cause it to lose it's shit, make you takeover (to avoid D+ jail) and then 5 seconds after you takeover - it's available again. And even things like not being able to disengage lane keeping separate from ACC, you enable them in 2 stages, but turning D+ off disables "everything" and if you're not ready with your foot on the accelerator and matching current speeds, it's not an elegant disengage. I work around this by just quickly/sharply nudging the wheel over so that it causes D+ to disengage (and stop complaining about the 150ft of unmapped road) but keeps ACC engaged. Once you get a feel for it, you can turn it just enough and not really cause too much fuss/variance in lane position. But it's pretty silly to have to workaround things this way.

I suspect these issues will improve, but not being able to keep lands on any street with lane markers in reasonable shape is a CONSTANT annoyance for me in crappy stop and go Chicago traffic.

 

[mpshizzle]

I traded in my R1T for an F150 Lightning. Lightning currently has Blue Cruise 1.1 (I think). Where I live there are a ton of mapped roads both for Driver+ and Blue Cruise. Overall Blue Cruise is better, but only by a bit. Chances are your Mach E has Blue Cruise 1.2 which is supposed to be a significant upgrade from what the Lightning has, and Blue Cruise 1.4 is out for even newer cars which is supposed to be even better.

A few other things I would like to mention, having Waze is so much more useful than the Rivian nav. Rivian nav honestly is fine sometimes, and total garbage other times. Text messaging at least for me is also important. Using android auto to send texts is great. Rivian is supposed to add this feature, but they've been saying that for over a year now.

Sadly my MME is still on BlueCruise 1.0 - but that's a whole can of worms for another forum

Does Rivian license mapping software from someone else, or is it built in house? I use Google Maps via AA exclusively in MME. Ford's built in system (Garmin based) is awful.

On mapped highways Driver+ is fine aside from issues others have mentioned here - clunky engage/disengage that always seems to make passengers look at you like WTF are you doing? and random 150ft stretches of unmapped road that cause it to lose it's shit, make you takeover (to avoid D+ jail) and then 5 seconds after you takeover - it's available again. And even things like not being able to disengage lane keeping separate from ACC, you enable them in 2 stages, but turning D+ off disables "everything" and if you're not ready with your foot on the accelerator and matching current speeds, it's not an elegant disengage. I work around this by just quickly/sharply nudging the wheel over so that it causes D+ to disengage (and stop complaining about the 150ft of unmapped road) but keeps ACC engaged. Once you get a feel for it, you can turn it just enough and not really cause too much fuss/variance in lane position. But it's pretty silly to have to workaround things this way.

I suspect these issues will improve, but not being able to keep lands on any street with lane markers in reasonable shape is a CONSTANT annoyance for me in crappy stop and go Chicago traffic.

Thanks for that description. That's exactly the nitty gritty look at what using the system day to day is like!

So far, distilling everyone's comments down, it sounds like WHEN it decides it wants to activate, it performs about on par-ish with other systems in the industry. So the primary annoyance isn't as much how well it performs, but rather that it's REALLY picky about when it activates.

That being said, it seems that with Gen 2 specifically things are supposed to improve greatly. Hopefully they can deliver. One of my frustrations with Ford has been the software updates. Over the last 3 years I've gotten A LOT of great software updates. But since BlueCruise initially went live I haven't gotten ANY updates to BC. Meanwhile new cars are leaving the factory with newer versions of BC. Seems like Rivian does better in that regard?

PS -

Text messaging at least for me is also important. Using android auto to send texts is great. Rivian is supposed to add this feature, but they've been saying that for over a year now.

I'm pretty sure I read that this (at least a basic version of it) is FINALLY supposed to be a part of the update coming at the end of June with the new cell shaded unreal engine stuff

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