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R1S Gen 1 vs Gen 2 Depreciation

R1Tom

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Age-related depreciation accelerates, but the overall depreciation rate slows because the most prominent hit is the transition from new to used status. Age becomes a factor because the warranty going is another value hit. For example, a 7-year-old car with 10K miles on it will be worth less than a 2-year-old car with 30K on it, assuming the same car with the same features.
Now I see....you were stating just one component of the depreciation not the overall amount.

One benefit of the G1 QM is that the high dollar high risk components, drivetrain...and batteries....are covered 8 years or 175k...so that should help ease some used market concerns at least till a year or so prior to that...or say 150k miles.
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Donald Stanfield

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Now I see....you were stating just one component of the depreciation not the overall amount.

One benefit of the G1 QM is that the high dollar high risk components, drivetrain...and batteries....are covered 8 years or 175k...so that should help ease some used market concerns at least till a year or so prior to that...or say 150k miles.
Very true. They won't be worth much outside of the battery warranty.
 
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mkg3

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I have never bought a vehicle with depreciation rate as a criteria.

It's a deprecating asset and not an investment. Its an expense item.

Go buy what you want and enjoy. When it comes time to sell or trade-in, the market will decide and is totally out of your control.

Unless you are a collector and buying rare or limited production vehicles, AND putting it away for 20 years, forget about it...
 

R1Tom

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Very true. They won't be worth much outside of the battery warranty.
I think alot depends on what happens when they start getting out of warranty. If they are tanks and have low upkeep costs....might hold a better value...if Rivian makes out of warranty repairs too painful....they will take a bigger hit. I plan to be a guinea pig and see what happens but only to point I feel it is unreasonable. Then I decide what next...My truck has been awesome overall so I don't want to part with it...at least not for $50k.
 

Donald Stanfield

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I think alot depends on what happens when they start getting out of warranty. If they are tanks and have low upkeep costs....might hold a better value...if Rivian makes out of warranty repairs too painful....they will take a bigger hit. I plan to be a guinea pig and see what happens but only to point I feel it is unreasonable. Then I decide what next...My truck has been awesome overall so I don't want to part with it...at least not for $50k.
That's fair, and I also feel the same about my truck. However, I need an SUV, so I pick up my R1S on the 30th.
 

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meshugy

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Folks if depreciation is a concern and you don’t put on 18-20k+ per year then leasing is the way to go.
Sure, in most instances that would be true. However, the scenario I’m exploring here is somewhat unique in that you have a previous years model that is a tremendous value, especially if purchased as a low mileage demo/return. The price difference between a lightly used Gen 1 Quad (which was Rivian’s flagship model, clearly designed to make a splash with nearly every upscale option included) and the base model Gen 2 Dual Standard is minimal, with the fully loaded Gen 1 Quad usually thousands less despite being superior in nearly every way save for the updated suspension/tech on the Gen 2.

For me the decision came down to either getting a Gen 2 Dual Large with Premium Audio vs a Gen 1 Quad Large.

Currently, the best lease deal for a Dual Large with Premium Audio is $918.47/mo

https://rivianroamer.com/inventory/212e8d23e2b80e2a3d10bd02e02ce4a8

Over 36 months, it would cost me $40,048 ($918.47 x 36 + $7K deposit) to lease this Gen 2 R1S Dual Large. I’m not including the delivery and dealer fees which would add around $2,695

The Gen 1 2023 R1S Quad Large I just purchased was $73K with no fees other than typical registration/tax. If after three years Rivian gave me $50K in trade for this vehicle, it would have only cost me $23k to own this car for 3 years, $17K less than leasing the Gen 2 Dual Large. Assuming the Gen 2 upgrades are not essential for you, the Gen 1 clearly makes financial sense. The trade in value of the Gen 1 would have to dip below $35K for the lease to make more sense over a three year period.

So far, I love the R1S and it seems to be completely free of build issues and quirks that people have reported over the years. I may very well keep it for a decade or more (my other car is a 2007 Volvo!) But it’s nice to know I likely won’t take a bath on this car should I decide to trade it in at some point. Of course this is still speculative as anything can happen: Rivian could go bankrupt, solid state batteries with 1000 mile range could become the norm, etc.

BTW, for simplicity’s sake I left taxes out of this calculation. It varies by state, but generally leasing costs less in taxes as you’re only taxed on the payments, not the entire value of the vehicle. However, having to pay delivery and dealer fees for the leased car more or less cancels the tax difference out. Also, if you finance the purchase of the Gen 1, that would add thousands in interest but not enough make up for the much higher expense of leasing the Gen 2 Dual.
 

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Sure, in most instances that would be true. However, the scenario I’m exploring here is somewhat unique in that you have a previous years model that is a tremendous value, especially if purchased as a low mileage demo/return. The price difference between a lightly used Gen 1 Quad (which was Rivian’s flagship model, clearly designed to make a splash with nearly every upscale option included) and the base model Gen 2 Dual Standard is minimal, with the fully loaded Gen 1 Quad usually thousands less despite being superior in nearly every way save for the updated suspension/tech on the Gen 2.

For me the decision came down to either getting a Gen 2 Dual Large with Premium Audio vs a Gen 1 Quad Large.

Currently, the best lease deal for a Dual Large with Premium Audio is $918.47/mo

https://rivianroamer.com/inventory/212e8d23e2b80e2a3d10bd02e02ce4a8

Over 36 months, it would cost me $40,048 ($918.47 x 36 + $7K deposit) to lease this Gen 2 R1S Dual Large. I’m not including the delivery and dealer fees which would add around $2,695

The Gen 1 2023 R1S Quad Large I just purchased was $73K with no fees other than typical registration/tax. If after three years Rivian gave me $50K in trade for this vehicle, it would have only cost me $23k to own this car for 3 years, $17K less than leasing the Gen 2 Dual Large. Assuming the Gen 2 upgrades are not essential for you, the Gen 1 clearly makes financial sense. The trade in value of the Gen 1 would have to dip below $35K for the lease to make more sense over a three year period.

So far, I love the R1S and it seems to be completely free of build issues and quirks that people have reported over the years. I may very well keep it for a decade or more (my other car is a 2007 Volvo!) But it’s nice to know I likely won’t take a bath on this car should I decide to trade it in at some point. Of course this is still speculative as anything can happen: Rivian could go bankrupt, solid state batteries with 1000 mile range could become the norm, etc.

BTW, for simplicity’s sake I left taxes out of this calculation. It varies by state, but generally leasing costs less in taxes as you’re only taxed on the payments, not the entire value of the vehicle. However, having to pay delivery and dealer fees for the leased car more or less cancels the tax difference out. Also, if you finance the purchase of the Gen 1, that would add thousands in interest but not enough make up for the much higher expense of leasing the Gen 2 Dual.
In many stats if you trade in the vehicle you only pay sales tax on the difference between the purchase price and the trade as well.
 

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other than the one that has been sitting in Hawaii for a month or two: https://rivianroamer.com/inventory/07eaafd9f0baa8dd0760194e69084401

over the last month I’ve seen 4 other ones, they were located in CA, MA, ID, and Phoenix I think. Maybe those were the last ones, but I’d guess a few more may pop up but maybe nowhere near you. There’s still a pile of old stock in Canada, and Rivian has transferred unsold Canadian inventory to the US in the past:

https://rivianroamer.com/inventory?view=grid&sort=last_activated_at&direction=desc&region=CA&condition=NEW_VEHICLE_CONFIG&model_year[]=2024&model_year[]=2023&model[]=R1S&ev_credit=0&nationwide=0

It’s also worth noting that the lease deal on the one in Hawaii actually has gotten worse. It was originally around $680 per month, now over $700. Still a great deal, but the sub $600 a month deals people were getting last Spring seem to be gone.

As good as those lease deals are, I think you can do better with a used low mileage Quad. CarMax seems to get a lot of them and they routinely sell sub 1Kmi vehicles for $73K.
IF you can find a Gen1 Quad Large in the shop, I agree that the lease deal would be nice. However you can't use the $3k "electric upgrade" offer on it, you can only use it on 2025 Dual/Tris. So the lease gap might not be as big as you think when you factor in that the Gen2 gets $3k discount whereas Gen1 doesn't.
 

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You’re doing the smart thing which is to do the math and see what works for you.

Yes lease terms on the Gen2 are not as good as they were on Gen1. The last person I spoke to who leased, with great credit, received a money factor equivalent to about 8% and a residual of about 60%. Lower residual and higher money factor make them more expensive to lease than what Rivian was offering on Gen1.

I wonder if we will see any increased incentives for December as the year end push begins.
 

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You’re doing the smart thing which is to do the math and see what works for you.

Yes lease terms on the Gen2 are not as good as they were on Gen1. The last person I spoke to who leased, with great credit, received a money factor equivalent to about 8% and a residual of about 60%. Lower residual and higher money factor make them more expensive to lease than what Rivian was offering on Gen1.

I wonder if we will see any increased incentives for December as the year end push begins.
Yup, I just did the math myself yesterday and have great credit, I have the money for the loan in cash and plenty of assets. The money factor was 7.7%, and I'm not sure what the residual % was, but the lease was around as expensive as a loan with a better interest rate, even with the 7500 credit factored in.

I would have just paid cash, but keeping that cash in investments means I'll come close to earning or exceeding what I'm paying in interest on the loan anyway. Regardless, the lease is not the deal the gen 1 lease was and isn't worth the mileage restrictions.
 

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Yup, I just did the math myself yesterday and have great credit, I have the money for the loan in cash and plenty of assets. The money factor was 7.7%, and I'm not sure what the residual % was, but the lease was around as expensive as a loan with a better interest rate, even with the 7500 credit factored in.

I would have just paid cash, but keeping that cash in investments means I'll come close to earning or exceeding what I'm paying in interest on the loan anyway. Regardless, the lease is not the deal the gen 1 lease was and isn't worth the mileage restrictions.
Yeah and the market has been on a wild ride as of late. My Tesla shares have exploded and I was already playing the buy low and sell high game. I was pulling in gains of 20-25% and the last one was a 63% gain! Anything below 7% is better to pay the note and put that money to work in the market....for me...not saying anyone else should attempt...talk to your CPA first.
 
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meshugy

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IF you can find a Gen1 Quad Large in the shop, I agree that the lease deal would be nice. However you can't use the $3k "electric upgrade" offer on it, you can only use it on 2025 Dual/Tris. So the lease gap might not be as big as you think when you factor in that the Gen2 gets $3k discount whereas Gen1 doesn't.
If you’re strictly talking about getting the highly incentivized lease deal that Rivian has been offering on Gen 1 Quads since this spring (I.e. rock bottom interest rates, often close to zero resulting in a rent charge below $2K, sometimes as little as $50!,) then that Gen 1 deal will always be a far, far better deal than any current lease on a Gen 2 (I.e. way higher interest, usually over 6%, rent charge on the Dual Large I cited above comes to a whopping $14,320 over three years.)

Even with the $3000 added Hybrid/Gas discount, a lease on the Dual Large I cited above comes to a total of $36,694 over the term of the lease, with $13,982 of that being interest, see the full breakdown here:

https://leasehackr.com/calculator?m...lt_mode=true&pretax_monPmt=825&lease_das=7825
 

ggsmith

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Well, obviously if you want to have good value on your vehicle when you sell it or trade it, the best policy is to park it in the garage and keep the mileage low.
My R1S is now nearing the one year anniversary and currently has just over 26,000 miles with two trips planned in the next 2 months.
You only experience the joy of driving a Rivian if you are actually driving it.
 
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