Rivian V2H Technical First Look (Patent)

[VSG]

I'm a believer in demand driven product development/marketing/sales. IMO the industry may be "failing to deliver" because despite what EV enthusiasts want to believe, there is not enough demand and profit potential to warrant their capital investment to bring these products to market.

Yes, I think this is probably a big reason. So maybe now Rivian has to do it themselves, or maybe we drop the whole notion of 22kW DC V2H entirely and move on to AC V2H.

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[VSG]

And heres their latest from 6 months ago - the only issue with the system is that requires a meter collar right now.
Many PUDs won’t allow meter collars.

Well that's not the only reason, because then it would be available in some regions and not others. It's not available AT ALL right now.

My utility, Tacoma Power, DOES allow meter collars, and I've been on the Enphase mailing list for three year, and the Enphase system is just not available now or in the near future.

Regardless, they've been showing that same great demo for three years, occasionally updating it. As I said, I like it and will buy it to go along with my existing Enphase solar system, but I'm just getting tired of waiting.

 

[Glembi2]

Ugh, patent publication published today, originally filed in October 2024.

 

[MoreTrout]

Well that's not the only reason, because then it would be available in some regions and not others. It's not available AT ALL right now.

My utility, Tacoma Power, DOES allow meter collars, and I've been on the Enphase mailing list for three year, and the Enphase system is just not available now or in the near future.

Regardless, they've been showing that same great demo for three years, occasionally updating it. As I said, I like it and will buy it to go along with my existing Enphase solar system, but I'm just getting tired of waiting.

Not saying they won't delay again, but their website has consistently said it will be available in second half 2026, and they have included that in their last few quarterly presentations. I would consider that the near future....if they stick to it this time.

They have a list of utilities by state that have approved the meter collar on their website, so that would be step one to follow for anyone interested in it when it is released. My Enphase installer knows I am first on his list when it arrives...if my utility gets around to approving the meter collar.

 

[mkhuffman]

I am curious if anybody knows why Enphase requires a meter collar. Is it a liability thing to ensure the homeowner doesn't do something stupid and backfeed the grid?

 

[Swiszo]

Thanks for posting this!

 

[COMtnEV]

I am curious if anybody knows why Enphase requires a meter collar. Is it a liability thing to ensure the homeowner doesn't do something stupid and backfeed the grid?

Stupid is the exact issue - the house has to be isolated to protect lineman (never mind overwhelming your battery system trying to pull power for all your neighbors). Same concept as the power management for a regular home battery backup system.

 

[Dasoss]

[/QUOTE,
Let's look at what this patent really is, beyond all the patentese. This patent application is a "continuation." That is, its adding to a previous patent or application. There are various legal reasons for this kiind of filing, but I'm not a patent attorney, so let's leave it at that. At first glance, this specification--the part of the patent that "teaches" the patent--seems unusually long and detailed. Here, the specification is likely largly copied from a previous application or applications. A patent has to completely describe how put it into practice. You can't hold back anything without risking invalidating the patent. It saves attorney fees to just copy existing material adding to it as needed. Consequently, we get a pretty good glimpse of what Rivan is has been doing. This might be a description derived from an actual physical prototype.(Also a common shortcut, because you can just copy existing drawings.) It is strikingly similar to the construction of a Tesla Powerwall, by the way. Rivian may be close to releasing a product. When and whether they do depends on business decisions. So, don't hold your breath.

The claims section is the legal heart of a patent. The claims describe what is actually protected. The rest of the patent doesn't actually protect snything. In this case, it claims putting two communication antennas in spaces inside the outer housing. This might seem to be lacking in novelty. After all, mobile phones have antennas inside their housings. This patent might be allowed, because the claims are very narrow. limited to chargers with a specific configutation. Whether or not it's allowed, the existance of the application prevents anyone else from claiming anything similar. This could just be a proactive measure on Rivian's part.

 

[daeHelkcunK]

They are absolute fools to not rush this into production. Do they have any idea how many storm sensitive owners that can't wait to get their hands on a quiet energy system that actually starts when it's needed? I would buy this in a heartbeat over having to listen to my generator after a hurricane.

 

[Jeff B.]

If you have a decent inverter system with battery backup, with or without solar, etc.. installed at your home, this is a non issue. In today's world, load shifting and backup power should be at the front of your priority lists. You cannot control the grid or the cost of electricity. The cost of power will certainly increase and the grid will go down at any point for various reasons you can't control. Reliance on having your Rivian at home for when the grid goes down or load shifting during peak rates is not good preparedness in my opinion. V2H should be there to supplement power, not be the primary source of power. The entire V2H process can easily be implemented through inverters / batteries now. It should also be very pretty simple to allow two way power delivery through a very basic EV charger when connected behind any inverter/battery system. There is no need for complexity, home inverter, battery systems already solve most of the issues with grid interaction. Spend your money on a good inverter and battery backup instead on waiting for very expensive EV manufacturer supplied hardware.

There are many well documented ways to extract power from the R1 in the event of an emergency, this is especially true if you have an inverter and battery system already installed. The R1 120v outlet can feed a AC/DC converter which can then feed the solar input of an inverter. The inverter / battery system can be portable or permanent and there are plenty of options available for much less than what you would spend to install an EV manufacturer supplied V2H module.

I think Rivian is smart for stalling V2H. This gives them time to wait for the aftermarket to really drive the V2H integration. In that case, all they would need to do is enable something via software, which they can do today.

 

[Pop]

If you have a decent inverter system with battery backup, with or without solar, etc.. installed at your home, this is a non issue. In today's world, load shifting and backup power should be at the front of your priority lists. You cannot control the grid or the cost of electricity. The cost of power will certainly increase and the grid will go down at any point for various reasons you can't control. Reliance on having your Rivian at home for when the grid goes down or load shifting during peak rates is not good preparedness in my opinion. V2H should be there to supplement power, not be the primary source of power. The entire V2H process can easily be implemented through inverters / batteries now. It should also be very pretty simple to allow two way power delivery through a very basic EV charger when connected behind any inverter/battery system. There is no need for complexity, home inverter, battery systems already solve most of the issues with grid interaction. Spend your money on a good inverter and battery backup instead on waiting for very expensive EV manufacturer supplied hardware.

There are many well documented ways to extract power from the R1 in the event of an emergency, this is especially true if you have an inverter and battery system already installed. The R1 120v outlet can feed a AC/DC converter which can then feed the solar input of an inverter. The inverter / battery system can be portable or permanent and there are plenty of options available for much less than what you would spend to install an EV manufacturer supplied V2H module.

I think Rivian is smart for stalling V2H. This gives them time to wait for the aftermarket to really drive the V2H integration. In that case, all they would need to do is enable something via software, which they can do today.

Can you suggest good learner sources (blog/forums/youtube etc) for educating someone on the approach you suggest?

 

[KBabione]

@mudito has a good thread here that might get you started. It really depends on what you currently have (if anything) and what your needs are.

 

[mudito]

@mudito has a good thread here that might get you started. It really depends on what you currently have (if anything) and what your needs are.

Thank you for tagging me I'm already trying to play my cards to get my hand on a V2H as soon as possible after Rivian (if?when?) releases such a product. Should be fairly trivial to integrate for those with Generator ports and/or transfer switches.

From the patent, it looks like they are relying in smart utility meters (those that control if and when current can flow back to the grid), which would a shame if Rivian only relies on this for communication.

If they choose not to have communication between devices, should be fairly easy to integrate with most residential inverters for additional battery backup/storage, like the one I have (most good hybrid inverters have an option to input 240v AC from other inverters without them communicating).

 

[Jeff B.]

@Pop, @mudito and I have pretty similar setups. I like the DC power supply in his thread to convert AC/DC. So I am picking up one of those to complement my setup. The power supply he uses has a higher DC output voltage range than the one I currently have (higher voltage, less current). I also use a Pecron E3600 for camping and it also serves as a buffer between the R1T and my EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra Backup in my house. The Pecron can charge from the R1T using both the 12v DC input (150 watts+/-) and the 120v AC inputs (1350 watts+/-) simultaneously. I also plug in about 800 watts of solar from my portable solar panels directly into my Ecolfow Delta Pro Ultra solar inputs. The AC/DC power supply does the rest and you can set the output voltage to whatever you need to input into your bettery/inverter setup. I know it sounds like a lot, but it actually works really well and has saved my rear a few times.

It's not a lot of power from the R1T but in a grid down scenario it can help sustain critical loads for several days until a more an appropriate V2H solution is available.

 

[Jeremy3292]

FWIW Kyle says in this recent video that R2 supports V2H. 14:35 minute mark.

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