Rivian vs Scout (⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS)

[DCFC]

Sorry to hear that you have had issues that prevents your confidence in taking long road trips in your Rivian.

That said, I would argue that your experience, while not uncommon, is not the norm. I have 2023 R1S with 43K miles and multiple roadtrips between 1,500~2,800 miles. I believe it's a mistake to paint with a broad brush that EVs re not trustworthy. In fact, they are just as, if not more so, reliable than ICE vehicle on the roadtrips due to less part count and no fluids.

My point is that while issues like what you have suffered is real and exists, that is not the case for most people. It's sort of like the range anxiety. As long as one understands what is expected using an EV for road trip, then it works out fine.

Last thing is, I fully agree with you that EREVs do make sense today. If one goes off the primary routes and major city pairs, charging infrastructure still needs improvement. Solid state battery vehicles will not change that equation. Only more fast charging locations do.

The R1 design is complex because it has all the bells and whistles. With complexity comes more failure modes. Beyond that, I think it's well documented the lack of build quality on many Rivians. The vehicle itself is very well engineered, but that doesn't mean it's put together well. I remember the early days, vehicles were getting delivered with many underbody panel fasteners missing. That's not a design issue, that's a lack of build quality and training issue.

What the R2 has going for it with respect to build quality is that it's an overall simpler design. That should translate into better consistency on the quality of assembly and therefore function. With everything communicating over CAN, from motors to door switches, a single loose connector can cause issues. See that thread on software complexity

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[shamoo]

I'm hopeful for the Scout, but like a lot of people, I'll believe it when I actually see it.

My Rivian R1S is the perfect bridge until then, as long as that bridge isn't too long. My warranty will probably be up in another year or two, and at that point I'll have to decide whether it's worth buying an extended warranty or moving on to something else if the Scout still isn't here (which, it probably won't be).

I love the Rivian, but as my son (and I) get older, we like to venture further out on off road excursions and camping trips. I've recently started to tow or hitch carry a dual sport and my range is terrible. Range is also terrible when I have my chunky Mickey Thompsons. Fortunately I don't intend on towing anything larger, but even so it was pretty limiting.

That's why the Scout was so interesting to me. Harvester with a supposed 500 mile range? Heck yeah. And it looks great too.

If the Scout doesn't come out, or isn't what it promised to be, I'm strongly considering non-EV. But there are limited options around fast/high power/off road capable/semi-luxury/etc.

I wish they made something like a TRX/Raptor in a SUV.

 

[mkg3]

The R1 design is complex because it has all the bells and whistles. With complexity comes more failure modes. Beyond that, I think it's well documented the lack of build quality on many Rivians. The vehicle itself is very well engineered, but that doesn't mean it's put together well. I remember the early days, vehicles were getting delivered with many underbody panel fasteners missing. That's not a design issue, that's a lack of build quality and training issue.

What the R2 has going for it with respect to build quality is that it's an overall simpler design. That should translate into better consistency on the quality of assembly and therefore function. With everything communicating over CAN, from motors to door switches, a single loose connector can cause issues. See that thread on software complexity

Completely agree. The QC and build execution of R1 vehicles, especially early VIN gen 1s, are not great. Those documented complaints, like herein at this forum, still represent less than 50% of the total ownership. This forum probably represents less than 5% of the total ownership those days.

As a side note. R2 uses zonal wifi architecture and not CAN bus architecture as published by Rivian. While Rivian SW is much better than the legacy automakers, it sill trails Tesla by wide margin. I own both and much prefer the Tesla SW over Rivian's. I know others will disagree so I am just stating my preference and not absolute comparison.

 

[Christopher1000]

I'm hopeful for the Scout, but like a lot of people, I'll believe it when I actually see it.

My Rivian R1S is the perfect bridge until then, as long as that bridge isn't too long. My warranty will probably be up in another year or two, and at that point I'll have to decide whether it's worth buying an extended warranty or moving on to something else if the Scout still isn't here (which, it probably won't be).

I love the Rivian, but as my son (and I) get older, we like to venture further out on off road excursions and camping trips. I've recently started to tow or hitch carry a dual sport and my range is terrible. Range is also terrible when I have my chunky Mickey Thompsons. Fortunately I don't intend on towing anything larger, but even so it was pretty limiting.

That's why the Scout was so interesting to me. Harvester with a supposed 500 mile range? Heck yeah. And it looks great too.

If the Scout doesn't come out, or isn't what it promised to be, I'm strongly considering non-EV. But there are limited options around fast/high power/off road capable/semi-luxury/etc.

I wish they made something like a TRX/Raptor in a SUV.

Put some big ass off road tires on the upcoming RAM Rev and you have a pretty cool truck, somewhat similar to a TRX/Raptor haha

 

[Christopher1000]

Completely agree. The QC and build execution of R1 vehicles, especially early VIN gen 1s, are not great. Those documented complaints, like herein at this forum, still represent less than 50% of the total ownership. This forum probably represents less than 5% of the total ownership those days.

As a side note. R2 uses zonal wifi architecture and not CAN bus architecture as published by Rivian. While Rivian SW is much better than the legacy automakers, it sill trails Tesla by wide margin. I own both and much prefer the Tesla SW over Rivian's. I know others will disagree so I am just stating my preference and not absolute comparison.

"Less than" 50% doesn't sound very promising, a glass half full is still half empty

 

[Christopher1000]

Completely agree. The QC and build execution of R1 vehicles, especially early VIN gen 1s, are not great. Those documented complaints, like herein at this forum, still represent less than 50% of the total ownership. This forum probably represents less than 5% of the total ownership those days.

As a side note. R2 uses zonal wifi architecture and not CAN bus architecture as published by Rivian. While Rivian SW is much better than the legacy automakers, it sill trails Tesla by wide margin. I own both and much prefer the Tesla SW over Rivian's. I know others will disagree so I am just stating my preference and not absolute comparison.

As a previous Model S and R1T owner, and now Volvo ex90, I can't agree more and have been saying if for years. I always get bashed. It's not a knock at Rivian really, Tesla has had more time to improve and fine tune.

 

[Zathras]

You’re thinking of the GM EV1.

You're right!

 

[shamoo]

Put some big ass off road tires on the upcoming RAM Rev and you have a pretty cool truck, somewhat similar to a TRX/Raptor haha

It's a pickup truck tho. I need a SUV .

 

[Supratachophobia]

How do you think the Scout Terra (extended range e+gas) will do compared to the R1? Very similar looks, Scout is more Retro and has the gas generator option. Volkswagen owed and thus a significant technology influence from Rivian.

One exists, one doesn't. Until that changes, I can't really see the benefit of speculating. Just buy the used R1 like you know you should.

 

[Christopher1000]

One exists, one doesn't. Until that changes, I can't really see the benefit of speculating. Just buy the used R1 like you know you should.

I already owned an R1T and sold it after 3 years because I couldn't trust it. They, or at least mine, had enough annoying service issues and the service in the Wash DC area sucks donkey balls.

That said, I completely understand why so many people love Rivian (I'm still a fan).

 

[mkhuffman]

There should be a huge market but Trump turned half the country to be against EVs and "windmills",...

Nope. Nobody who voted for Trump decided to turn against EVs because of anything he said.

The limitations of EVs are real and I know because I have felt the pain personally. I share it with my Trump voting friends and yet, funny enough, they are still interested in EVs. They are just waiting for them to be worth it. And many have decided the Model Y is just that: worth it.

You should apologize for your political insult on a car forum.

 

[TTedP]

My eyes have been wandering to the Hummer. It's just too ridiculous. I would be embarrassed driving one.

I have two buddies with one. Total muscle car guys who wouldn't have otherwise gotten an EV. Great range. The T-Tops are the best part!

There's worse looking things (like CT and that BYD posted earlier)

 

[TTedP]

I'll be onto my next half finished EV soon...

what's next on the list?

 

[Christopher1000]

what's next on the list?

I'll probably get a Tesla while I'm waiting for either the Ram Rev or Scout, primarily because they actually work better than other Evs but also because I need a good dog mode like Tesla and Rivian has. Basically I'll just view the Tesla as working transportation.

 

[VSG]

because EVs are not going to change the weather

ICE vehicles already have changed the weather.

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