Some people's kids...

[justinkitswa]

Having purchased our new R1S on April 25 of last year, I spent a fair bit of time on this forum reading up and learning what to expect. My wife and I do almost all of our purchase research on forums, as we feel most of the online auto "publications" (if you could still call them that) are heavily swayed by forces outside real world experiences (like paid/comp'ed influencers, etc..)

This forum is different than most. There is a cadre here of people who have taken it on as their personal mission to defend against any and all negative sentiment about Rivian and their products.

Are they paid influencers? I don't know.
Are they Rivian shareholders? Perhaps.
Have their methods been effective at silencing dissent? Absolutely.

My wife and I fall into the category of folks who've had significant issues with our R1S. We've also experienced the lesser-grade software nits others mention. Besides an initial post on the repeated "Christmas tree" of warning lights that required an SC visit, I've kept silent.

I know better than to say anything here that might be construed as complaining. I don't wish to be called a troll. I don't want to be accused of whining. I don't need to be reminded that every other car out there requires things like weekly reboots and lowered expectations, and that I should just learn to live with it.

To be clear, we love our R1S. Nothing compares to it.
But, hear me out on this, Rivian pays close attention to this forum.
We know this.

Why would we not share the cold hard truth with them, in arguably the only platform we have?
I completed the 60 minute long survey I received from Wassym.
I was brutally honest.

I desperately want Rivian to survive. I am looking forward to seeing the R2/R3 and so on rolling down the road. I believe in the "never waste a good catastrophe" mantra, and I feel Rivian could benefit from our honest feedback.

To the group of people on here who blast every negative opinion as whining or troll garbage, I am talking to you. I challenge you to listen to "Hey You" by Pink Floyd.

Together we stand, divided we fall.

*I fully expect to be called a few things because of this post. Looking forward to the discussion...*

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[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Bull. There are plenty here who defend Rivian when accusations are invalid, and criticize them when they deserve it. The real world isn’t just black or white. It’s that and everything in between. If you only see two shades, you need to examine and be conscious of your own bias.

IMO, it’s far more balanced (and emotionally mature) than other platforms.

 

[justinkitswa]

Fair point

But what differentiates whining from sharing honest feedback?

 

[Proxy]

“Independent” polls show Rivian as one of the least reliable brands… and the one with the highest satisfaction. Some people like pain.

 

[emoore]

Fair point

But what differentiates whining from sharing honest feedback?

Tone and wording of the post has a lot to do with it. Also when people refuse to try things that have worked as fixes, to me that's just complaining with no interest in getting a solution.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Fair point

But what differentiates whining from sharing honest feedback?

Knowledge. Lots of whining are from people who don't know how things actually work and assume right away that something is wrong with their car or wrong with how Rivian responded to them. And having knowledge yourself allow you to determine what is a valid or invalid complaint. Lots of people don't join forums to learn and gain or share knowledge. They join to complain and use it to vent and not feel invisible. There's also a set of members who join to ask questions, but with attitude. And be argumentative when answers don't fit their personal bias.

And, yes, some members are influencers. Duh? They're everywhere and they need to be in order to find followers. It's what they do. If you don't like their shill, just add them to your ignore list. However, if you ignore people who don't fit your bias, you could be ignoring people who could give you knowledge.

 

[beatle]

I don't even bother reading one star reviews. 5 star reviews are almost as worthless. 2-4 star reviews are where a lot of the honest info comes from since there is clearly some thought to balance and reflect on both good and bad. Most people don't write 2-4 star posts though.

 

[jrmbadger]

Having purchased our new R1S on April 25 of last year, I spent a fair bit of time on this forum reading up and learning what to expect. My wife and I do almost all of our purchase research on forums, as we feel most of the online auto "publications" (if you could still call them that) are heavily swayed by forces outside real world experiences (like paid/comp'ed influencers, etc..)

This forum is different than most. There is a cadre here of people who have taken it on as their personal mission to defend against any and all negative sentiment about Rivian and their products.

Are they paid influencers? I don't know.
Are they Rivian shareholders? Perhaps.
Have their methods been effective at silencing dissent? Absolutely.

My wife and I fall into the category of folks who've had significant issues with our R1S. We've also experienced the lesser-grade software nits others mention. Besides an initial post on the repeated "Christmas tree" of warning lights that required an SC visit, I've kept silent.

I know better than to say anything here that might be construed as complaining. I don't wish to be called a troll. I don't want to be accused of whining. I don't need to be reminded that every other car out there requires things like weekly reboots and lowered expectations, and that I should just learn to live with it.

To be clear, we love our R1S. Nothing compares to it.
But, hear me out on this, Rivian pays close attention to this forum.
We know this.

Why would we not share the cold hard truth with them, in arguably the only platform we have?
I completed the 60 minute long survey I received from Wassym.
I was brutally honest.

I desperately want Rivian to survive. I am looking forward to seeing the R2/R3 and so on rolling down the road. I believe in the "never waste a good catastrophe" mantra, and I feel Rivian could benefit from our honest feedback.

To the group of people on here who blast every negative opinion as whining or troll garbage, I am talking to you. I challenge you to listen to "Hey You" by Pink Floyd.

Together we stand, divided we fall.

*I fully expect to be called a few things because of this post. Looking forward to the discussion...*

I've noticed the opposite. I've noticed a LOT of "Rivian sucks" threads lately about minor issues. The OP then dismiss anyone who chimes in to say "I like my car" AND OP proceeds to ignore any advice or offers to diagnose or debug their car. On the latest one, half the OP's problems were basically fixed by the replies (at least one was user error). The only response OP provides is "This forum sucks because I cannot crap on Rivian without 100% agreement!"

You'll find that threads where people have legitimate problems and are asking for help or not taking a huge crap on Rivian get positive responses and help. Other threads that take a decidedly hostile tone get hostile results. Not a surprise. Compare the tone of OP to the response in the comments to the following two posts and you'll see what I mean: Post 1 vs. Post 2

Are they paid influencers? I don't know.
Have they shorted Rivian or do they have stock in another EV company? Perhaps.
Have their methods been effective at trashing Rivian? Absolutely.

 

[1stPlace]

I agree with @UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan there are generally a lot of people here that try to earnestly discuss their ownership. The tone of someone's post or thread often dictates where things go from there.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

The only response OP provides is "This forum sucks because I cannot crap on Rivian without 100% agreement!"

And that emotional immaturity is what I touched on earlier. Bias blinds people. And bias isn't exclusive to other people. Each person, including the OP, is prone to bias. Everyone, asking or receiving, can be blinded by bias equally. And how people react to you has just as much to do with how you present yourself and react to them.

Collectively, we learn from constructive discussion. "Rivian sucks, always broken" [paraphrasing] is not constructive. It's slander. It's trolling. The reaction is as predictable/useful as if you ran into a ice cream parlor in the dead of summer yelling "ice cream sucks, it makes you fat!" Or, barging into sunday church service yelling, "God doesn't exist, you're all suckers!" Get my drift? That is how absurd the behavior is.

 

[justinkitswa]

Fully agree with the statement "Rivian sucks, always broken is not constructive"

I guess the thing I am struggling with is what differentiates between first-world-problem-bitching and being annoyed with something to the point of writing a rant about it?

To some, small problems are worth it for a legitimately unique experience like the R1.
To others, the bullshit bar may be lower.

I think to some extent the bias is on both sides of the argument. While you may be biased that I am bitching about nothing, I may be biased that my experience warrants bitching.

 

[justinkitswa]

I've noticed the opposite. I've noticed a LOT of "Rivian sucks" threads lately about minor issues. The OP then dismiss anyone who chimes in to say "I like my car" AND OP proceeds to ignore any advice or offers to diagnose or debug their car. On the latest one, half the OP's problems were basically fixed by the replies (at least one was user error). The only response OP provides is "This forum sucks because I cannot crap on Rivian without 100% agreement!"

You'll find that threads where people have legitimate problems and are asking for help or not taking a huge crap on Rivian get positive responses and help. Other threads that take a decidedly hostile tone get hostile results. Not a surprise. Compare the tone of OP to the response in the comments to the following two posts and you'll see what I mean: Post 1 vs. Post 2

Are they paid influencers? I don't know.
Have they shorted Rivian or do they have stock in another EV company? Perhaps.
Have their methods been effective at trashing Rivian? Absolutely.

I appreciate the post 1 vs post 2 comparison. I think this highlights exactly the root of what I am getting at.

In Post 1, the OP is like "Man this sucks, big problems. Will talk to Rivian and see if I can get it fixed" and the replies are generally positive.

In Post 2 the OP has a list of problems and they're clearly venting. And the replies are very much not taking the bait.

It's obvious a major failure warrants being frustrated, but the OP in that post wasn't really conveying frustration. If the OP had went on a "Rivian sucks" rant, would the replies have been different?

 

[justinkitswa]

As I think about it, I wonder if the moderators could start a new "Bitching and Complaining" forum separate from the general one... That way everyone knows going in that what is being shared is just that, rather than seeking legitimate feedback?

Might even be worth locking replies ?

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

Many of us who put $1,000 down in late 2018 and waited until 2022 came mainly from reliable ICE vehicles, Toyota/Lexus in our case, with a 911TT mixed in. I knew going Rivian meant accepting early-adopter growing pains. Owners coming in around 2024 onwards understandably don’t share that mindset.

First-world problems? Sure, but we live in the first world and expect a first-world product. That’s the tension, in my view.

 

[COdogman]

Good lord, what a bunch of dramatic BS. Not the issues you have had, but your post isn't even about that....

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