Top 5 Reasons Switching to a Tesla Dominated NACS Standard is a Colossal Mistake for the Consumer

[SASSquatch]

HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray

Apple Lighting Connector vs USB-C

Stuff just like happens In unexpected ways. No reason to lose sleep over it.

I’m sure you feel very strongly about most of your points now bit it’s mostly speculation, I’m sure in a few years when all the dust settles none of it will really matter. End in the end, you’ll just have more places to charge, and you can stay far, far away from Tesla Branded chargers if you choose. If you are driving a vehicle with NACS you can use an adapter in those Wal-Mart parking lots littered with mcDonalds wrappers all day long.

I'm in agreement with your post and it's not that I'm against NACS - I am for EV adoption, and I think that the Ford/GM partnership with Tesla creates confusion and doesn't help us get to a standard.

We need to accelerate EV adoption and make investments in EV infrastructure that is reliable, ubiquitous, and reasonably fast. I am perfectly fine with adding a NACS capability to fast chargers that are in the development pipeline. Ultimately, I don't personally believe there will be a single standard - I think that is a pipedream and we will need charging capabilities that can accommodate a range of standards.

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[ufdlim]

One could argue your entire post is speculation.

Here's what's not speculation. The global standard has already been set to CCS. There are twice as many CCS chargers than there are NACS. In Europe, all Tesla Superchargers must use CCS.

The US Government has stated that the 7.5 Billion for facilitating EV charger buildout MUST INCLUDE CCS.

Facts

Not actually a fact at all… lol. The bill requires the station charges any type of vehicle, which of course CCS. It does not specify the CCS1 connector. That can be met with an adaptor or magic dock today.

 

[ohseedee]

Why do you assume it will open up to Rivian? Rivian has announced no plans for adopting the NACS standard.

Currently, you would only be able to use the handful of Magic Dock chargers which barely have a cable long enough when driving in head first. Also, you're paying a significant price premium.

Of course I don‘t know for sure, but it’s a logical assumption. Rivian is a small public company in the business of selling EVs. We are seeing the start of a domino effect towards NACS. Rivian has no real interest in CCS other than it already exists on the cars and they have a handful of RAN built out. The investment to switch isn‘t huge, but the risks of getting suck on a dying technology in north America is huge. If they decided to die on the CCS hill you’d see share holder lawsuits as customers revolt. No chance that happens. I’ll reply back here in 90 days with a link the the announcement

 

[crashmtb]

Having used both charging stations/standards...
Tesla Charging WORKS ALL THE TIME!

the plug on the end of the cable has nothing to do with this.

 

[SASSquatch]

Of course I don‘t know for sure, but it’s a logical assumption. Rivian is a small public company in the business of selling EVs. We are seeing the start of a domino effect towards NACS. Rivian has no real interest in CCS other than it already exists on the cars and they have a handful of RAN built out. The investment to switch isn‘t huge, but the risks of getting suck on a dying technology in north America is huge. If they decided to die on the CCS hill you’d see share holder lawsuits as customers revolt. No chance that happens. I’ll reply back here in 90 days with a link the the announcement

We can have a difference of opinion here and time will absolutely tell.

I don't think there will be a domino effect because OEMs have invested too much into their platforms. Remember, NACS is banned in Europe, so there will be OEMs that have a large presence there since the European market is huge for EVs that simply don't want to support two different standards across their product line.

I'll meet you back here in 90 days and we'll see what the update is.

 

[azbill]

1) The Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 are both capable of 800v charging. Tesla Stans claim the cybertruck will be capable. And there is only 1 v4 supercharger currently operating in the entire world.

GM trucks support 800v as well.

 

[SeaGeo]

You missed the part where it's only rated for 200A continuous. It's not on this document intentionally.

Isn't it like 350, hence magic docks barely providing 150kw?

Thrilled to potentially have to pull out a large adapter that's llmore likely to fail to plug future NACS chargers into my truck and only pull 150kw. /s

Of course I don‘t know for sure, but it’s a logical assumption. Rivian is a small public company in the business of selling EVs. We are seeing the start of a domino effect towards NACS. Rivian has no real interest in CCS other than it already exists on the cars and they have a handful of RAN built out. The investment to switch isn‘t huge, but the risks of getting suck on a dying technology in north America is huge. If they decided to die on the CCS hill you’d see share holder lawsuits as customers revolt. No chance that happens. I’ll reply back here in 90 days with a link the the announcement

Who says Tesla would let Rivian on the SC network? Nacs is literally subject to his whim.

Tesla is also seemingly tying access to to getting something from manufacturers. If Tesla wanted nacs to be open they could have just offered and adapter in general.

 

[SANZC02]

Isn't it like 350, hence magic docks barely providing 150kw?

Thrilled to potentially have to pull out a large adapter that's llmore likely to fail to plug future NACS chargers into my truck and only pull 150kw. /s




Who says Tesla would let Rivian on the SC network? Nacs is literally subject to his whim.

Tesla is also seemingly tying access to to getting something from manufacturers. If Tesla wanted nacs to be open they could have just offered and adapter in general.

There are still a lot of Superchargers (maybe half) that max out at 72 and 150 kW even without adapters.

I never really cared as my Model S does not stay over 72 very long but hope everyone is not thinking all SuperChargers are 250.

 

[azbill]

Lots of speculation and specifications in the thread when ultimately none of it matters. The market will drive the adapter. NACS being the connector of the most reliable and omnipresent network is a strong predictor of the winner. Americans are remarkably price insensitive to “fuel” costs, caring more about convenience.

If, and I’d say when, CCS loses we only have EA and VW to blame. The economics of supporting a CCS network when NACS cars will quickly go negative, which will make expanding the networks further even hard. That’s before retrofits to also support NACS. Short of government intervention this will be the case.

I blame EVGO and ChargePoint as well, they made zero effort to build interstate fast chargers. They put all of there chargers in urban areas. Without competition, EA was under no pressure to improve reliability. The connector has no direct relationship to reliability, it is the manufacturers of the equipment, and this is where Tesla is far better.

What if EA bought chargers from Tesla and put CCS connectors on them? I bet reliability would improve.

 

[SeaGeo]

There are still a lot of Superchargers (maybe half) that max out at 72 and 150 kW even without adapters.

I never really cared as my Model S does not stay over 72 very long but hope everyone is not thinking all SuperChargers are 250.

Tbh, I forgot how many V2 SC are out there.

The other thing we don't know even if Tesla enabled 500A+ charging through an adapter is if it can even handle it long enough for an r1t before derating due to temps.

 

[solaskaze]

OK Guys, I think we should just scrap both CCS and NACS, and start from scratch. Here's a superior design, and well tested over many years:

 

[Jedimaster109]

the plug on the end of the cable has nothing to do with this.

Exactly, did you read my entire quote? Tesla would be the better choice in running our charging infrastructure.
But let’s be honest, the Tesla connector is vastly superior.

 

[SDH]

Anyone get the impression that the OP isn't a fan of Musk?

Put your feelings for him aside, the Tesla supercharger network is hands down the best network and I can't see that changing (RAN? I don't think so). EA, EvGo et al. are all 50/50 at best. If Rivian don't get on this, then more fool them.

I believe a good number of folks on here are new to EVs (judging by the comments) and so probably haven't owned a Tesla and thus experienced the difference between the Tesla network and the rest (esp. if you're on on a long journey). It's night and day.

Personally, I was thinking of trading out of my R1 and back to a Tesla and this news has supported that decision.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I don't trust Elon Musk, but if you do, then you are welcome to do so. He has a long history of creating chaos.

He's probably also going to be sued into the stratosphere for pumping and dumping crypto - but that's another topic.

He absolutely did that pump and dump thing and the only reason he's not in jail is crypto doesn't count as securities fraud.

 

[240vPlug]

You make some incredibly good arguments here. I would say they are arguments against opening up the Tesla superchargers though and not against using NACS as the connector.

The NACS is capable of up to 1,000v. Using the NACS connector is better than CCS1. CCS1 are bulky and cumbersome cables. I think the NACS is a better cable and design for all EV.

I do agree with #4 above as it relates to opening up Tesla superchargers. In the end though I think the best thing is to have one standard in the US and have all charging networks open to all EV. Not only will this promote EV adoption but it will also force other 3rd party charging networks to up their game in maintaining & expanding their charging infrastructure.

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