Unexpected Conserve vs All Purpose Efficiency Behavior

[zefram47]

I don't watch all their stuff, though I do find it informative. Can you link it? How long was the loop and what were the speeds?

It'll be hard to get multiple tests done with consistent conditions, but I'll give it a shot over the next couple weeks.

Of course I can't find the video now...definitely remember them running the test though.

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[Cascadian]

I've posted this data a few time on this forum. I am continuing to collect data but an odd pattern is showing up.

I do a frequent 165 mile trip between my home near Minneapolis to my cabin near Hayward, WI. Been doing it for about 1.5 years now in my R1T. Most of the first year was in conserve mode and I saw very consistent and predictable behavior with temperature. Most of this summer and fall has been in All Purpose, with a few conserve trips in the mix. The all purpose efficiency is inconsistent with not much of a change with temperatures being seen so far. I've have also done the trip many times with a bike rack on the hitch or a bed top tent, those have all been in conserve and that data seems to make sense. I even did one recent trip in conserve with the tonneau open (Gold X on the chart) with some articles in the bed and that was smack dead on the other conserve data.

I will continue to get data but wanted to share what I've seen so far. I don't have any real good explanation...... Same set of tires for all trips and I don't think it is a time based issue or tire tread wear issue because I've mixed in some conserve trips with the all purpose trips this summer and the conserve data fell right in line with past observations.

R1T with 21" road tires with PSI always between 45 and 50 psi.
In Conserve ride height is "low".
In All Purpose ride height is "standard".
If it happens that there is a head or tailwind of greater than 15 mph I do not include that trip in the data set.

Is there a reason that you don’t have more data for AP in the 0 to 40 deg range?
Would that not improve the quality of your curve?

 

[Budman]

Is there a reason that you don’t have more data for AP in the 0 to 40 deg range?
Would that not improve the quality of your curve?

Has not gotten that cold yet this year. Last fall and winter I ran Conserve/Low. Will collect more AP/Standard data through the upcoming fall and winter. We will see if that clears things up a bit.

 

[Cascadian]

Has not gotten that cold yet this year. Last fall and winter I ran Conserve/Low. Will collect more AP/Standard data through the upcoming fall and winter. We will see if that clears things up a bit.

It certainly is interesting that the trend line is such a different shape.
I take delivery of S very soon and will be able to record similar data for my trips between Seattle and Whistler.

 

[WSea]

I think some of the big tire wear issues in conserve come down to smoothness. If you are going to hop on steady roads and have minimal regenerative braking, you will have quite a bit less wear up front.

Except that with the new guage screen we know regen is biased towards fronts even in AP

 

[jimmyb2]

I've posted this data a few time on this forum. I am continuing to collect data but an odd pattern is showing up.

I do a frequent 165 mile trip between my home near Minneapolis to my cabin near Hayward, WI. Been doing it for about 1.5 years now in my R1T. Most of the first year was in conserve mode and I saw very consistent and predictable behavior with temperature. Most of this summer and fall has been in All Purpose, with a few conserve trips in the mix. The all purpose efficiency is inconsistent with not much of a change with temperatures being seen so far. I've have also done the trip many times with a bike rack on the hitch or a bed top tent, those have all been in conserve and that data seems to make sense. I even did one recent trip in conserve with the tonneau open (Gold X on the chart) with some articles in the bed and that was smack dead on the other conserve data.

I will continue to get data but wanted to share what I've seen so far. I don't have any real good explanation...... Same set of tires for all trips and I don't think it is a time based issue or tire tread wear issue because I've mixed in some conserve trips with the all purpose trips this summer and the conserve data fell right in line with past observations.

R1T with 21" road tires with PSI always between 45 and 50 psi.
In Conserve ride height is "low".
In All Purpose ride height is "standard".
If it happens that there is a head or tailwind of greater than 15 mph I do not include that trip in the data set.

Looking forward to the data you record at temps below 40 deg. in AP in standard height.

After that how about doing a season in AP at LOW height to be able to more directly compare to Conserve data?

Too bad more drivers with repeatable trips haven’t gathered this kind of data. You have put a lot of effort into this, and it is much appreciated.

I assume each data point a one way trip, correct?

With the gauge view now you’ll be able to easily determine elevation change end to end as well.

 

[Budman]

Looking forward to the data you record at temps below 40 deg. in AP in standard height.

After that how about doing a season in AP at LOW height to be able to more directly compare to Conserve data?

Too bad more drivers with repeatable trips haven’t gathered this kind of data. You have put a lot of effort into this, and it is much appreciated.

I assume each data point a one way trip, correct?

With the gauge view now you’ll be able to easily determine elevation change end to end as well.

Yes, one way 165 mile trips. A net elevation change of about 600 feet.

 

[ksujeff99]

This is great! Thank you for sharing. I really appreciate the data visualization.

A few follow-up questions:
1) Your average speed is 54mph. Is that representative of your actual trip? In other words, are you cruising at 80mph for part of the trip and 30mph through town? Or are you around 60 most of the way?
2) For the lower temps, are you starting with a warm battery/truck (e.g. truck in a warm garage, driving shortly after charging)?
3) Are you using cabin heat in the colder temps? If so, how warm do you keep the cabin?
4) Any anecdotal difference in efficiency as your 21" tires have worn?

I think you should have made the wind cutoff 12.2 mph instead. /S
Everyone's a critic...

 

[Budman]

This is great! Thank you for sharing. I really appreciate the data visualization.

A few follow-up questions:
1) Your average speed is 54mph. Is that representative of your actual trip? In other words, are you cruising at 80mph for part of the trip and 30mph through town? Or are you around 60 most of the way?
2) For the lower temps, are you starting with a warm battery/truck (e.g. truck in a warm garage, driving shortly after charging)?
3) Are you using cabin heat in the colder temps? If so, how warm do you keep the cabin?
4) Any anecdotal difference in efficiency as your 21" tires have worn?

I think you should have made the wind cutoff 12.2 mph instead. /S
Everyone's a critic...

Thanks for the questions.

1). 54 mph is average. About 1/2 the trip is on interstate 35 going ~72 mph. Half on rural roads going ~60 mph with through town slowdowns. Just a few stop signs can really pull down the average.

2). No set criteria on charging/battery temps. It is a 3 hour trip so I think the initial state isn’t nearly as a big factor as on shorter trips. No cabin preconditioning ever used.

3). I use cabin heat set to 72 deg. Plus seat warmers and heated steering wheel. No special considerations given to climate controls to increase range.

4). I don’t think so. The conserve efficiency repeated very well over time.

One other thing I will add is that if the temperature changed a lot during the trip I did not include that in the data set. About a seven degree delta is the cutoff and I recorded an average temp during the trip for the charts.

 

[obababoy]

Except that with the new guage screen we know regen is biased towards fronts even in AP

Yeah that follows the normal trend for braking in a vehicle in general. There is more force and traction up front which is while front brakes are always bigger. Again going from AP with rear biased acceleration and regen added in the rear vs FWD braking, accelerating, and steering its pretty clear that the fronts have their work cut out for them.

 

[rhumbliner]

I even did one recent trip in conserve with the tonneau open (Gold X on the chart) with some articles in the bed and that was smack dead on the other conserve data.

This I find interesting. Over the years several automotive magazines have done tailgate up / tailgate down studies to determine is which more efficient and, counter intuitively, tailgate up has always been shown to be most efficient — but not by a lot.

Your data point would suggest that, perhaps, tonneau cover open is at least as efficient, if not more efficient, than cover closed.

 

[Budman]

This I find interesting. Over the years several automotive magazines have done tailgate up / tailgate down studies to determine is which more efficient and, counter intuitively, tailgate up has always been shown to be most efficient — but not by a lot.

Your data point would suggest that, perhaps, tonneau cover open is at least as efficient, if not more efficient, than cover closed.

These folks have tested Tonneau open vs closed and found a couple of percent impact.

https://tonneaucoverguide.com/do-tonneau-covers-save-gas-mythbusters/

 

[Riviot]

Has not gotten that cold yet this year. Last fall and winter I ran Conserve/Low. Will collect more AP/Standard data through the upcoming fall and winter. We will see if that clears things up a bit.

Where we at with this? We leave for Montana tomorrow and I'm debating ride mode and height. @zefram47 has me questioning low, and the temps have me questioning Conserve. We'll leave with a warm battery, headwind looks like 5mph, and temps will be 40°F +/-5.

I'm on 275/60R20 Wildpeaks with Ram 2363. My average has been 2mi/kWh so I'm somewhat concerned.

 

[SANZC02]

Where we at with this? We leave for Montana tomorrow and I'm debating ride mode and height. @zefram47 has me questioning low, and the temps have me questioning Conserve. We'll leave with a warm battery, headwind looks like 5mph, and temps will be 40°F +/-5.

I'm on 275/60R20 Wildpeaks with Ram 2363. My average has been 2mi/kWh so I'm somewhat concerned.

I will give you my experience from late January- early February. Drove over 5k miles in temps ranging from mid teens to upper 50s for the first 4K and 60s to 70s for the last 1k. Typically drove in all purpose standard height until I got on the freeways then went to conserve low (not lowest) and would switch back to all purpose before exiting the freeway. Running 22s and averaged 2.2 miles per kWh for the entire trip.

I think without conserve probably would have been closer to 2 miles per kWh. The difference is about 20 miles in 100 kWh.

 

[Riviot]

I will give you my experience from late January- early February. Drove over 5k miles in temps ranging from mid teens to upper 50s for the first 4K and 60s to 70s for the last 1k. Typically drove in all purpose standard height until I got on the freeways then went to conserve low (not lowest) and would switch back to all purpose before exiting the freeway. Running 22s and averaged 2.2 miles per kWh for the entire trip.

I think without conserve probably would have been closer to 2 miles per kWh. The difference is about 20 miles in 100 kWh.

That's how I've run my road trips too, regardless of temp, but now I'm considering not changing mode and/or height in lower temps. The question is... What temp, and what to not change?

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