We are way too obsessed with range

[CharonPDX]

Why are we so obsessed with Range? Unless you drive 100+ miles per day, I see no concern on a 260-320+ mi battery pack even with cold weather losses. That still leaves 150-200 miles of range which is plenty.

Driving a vehicle like this at max 65mph, not warming the cabin enough because of battery range, charging only on certain times due to battery degradation seems to me like way too much range anxiety.

Drive the truck at the speeds you want , heat up the cabin to what makes you comfortable, charge when needed and enjoy your Rivian.

Worrying so much about range and battery degradation takes the fun out of this. Enjoy in good health.

For my non-pickup EVs? As long as it has enough range to do my standard daily driving, plus a reasonable extra buffer for errands, it's good as my primary daily vehicle. I had a BMW i3 for years as that. (Only replaced when we moved and my wife's commute+driving style meant it didn't have enough range to do anything other than "work and back home" with zero extra range for errands.)

In my case, I will tow a large trailer with my truck, though. Towing large trailers cuts efficiency/range in half. And when I'm doing that, it won't be "40 miles total all day in town," it'll be 150+ miles all at once. And I'm planning on keeping this truck for a decade or more. So maximizing range and minimizing degradation (so it still has reasonable range in 10 years) is absolutely vital for this vehicle. If in 10 years, even if it means driving a 55 MPH back road instead of a 65 MPH freeway everyone is driving 75 MPH on, and driving with the cabin 5 degrees warmer or cooler than I'd really prefer, but I can still make that 140 mile drive to a certain coast campground on one charge? That'll be worth it.

Sure, when I'm not towing, I'll drive it normally, but I will still pay proper attention to battery health, trying to not let it sit close to empty or full very often.

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[trevtremaine]

IF this is your primary vehicle, and you don't care to have a second one just to drive everywhere else, then yes - range does matter. One of the reasons why Tesla has done so well is that it provides a reasonable range so that you don't need to own alternative vehicles when the trip gets long. That's why city EVs don't cut the mustard for me.

 

[ironpig]

I don't think "we" are way to obsessed with range. I'm not. I drove an EV with just over 200 miles of range starting in 2014 and never had a problem. My R1T gives me even more which is plenty of range for my lifestyle.

The term "range anxiety" has been around a long time. It's important to "alleviate range anxiety" but it can be achieved in multiple ways. Larger batteries, faster charging, more chargers, more consumer awareness etc.

If you suffer from range anxiety, it's good to go on some roadtrips and really experience the capabilities of your vehicle and know both the limits of the vehicle and the limits of your own tolerance for RA.

 

[Yossarian]

We are a one-vehicle family and need that vehicle to do everything from grocery shopping to towing a camper on long trips to remote places. The plan is for the Rivian to replace the vehicle that does that right now, a Telluride.

In winter, our drive is to the Mountain West, often in conditions similar to those that @crashmtb so elegantly described, often with more than a little of the white stuff either falling or blowing. The trips during the warmer months are usually with the camper in tow. My assumption is that in severe cold weather, and while towing, power consumption will be around (possibly below) the 1.0 mi per kWh mark. I don't think I'm obsessed with range; given my planed usage, a 135 kWh battery doesn't really seem like the best option, at least until the charging network is more extensive and robust.

 

[Gator42]

but why are you buying a Rivian for using around town? It's marketed specifically as an adventure vehicle.

…that is delivered mostly only to consumers in a select few major cities. If you live in an adventure area….sorry you’ll have to wait. SooN…

 

[Dublin ‘Eer]

I’ve seen these threads in the Tesla forums for years. What people fail to realize is that everyone doesn’t use their vehicle the same as you. A perfect example—we are a family with three young children 6 and under. A couple of times each year we make a 1,000 mile trip each way to our condo in Florida and usually start the trip in the late afternoon so we can drive through the night and complete the trip by the next morning with the kids sleeping through a vast majority of the latter 2/3 of the journey. With our Expedition, we can do this with only a single 5-10 minute stop for gas. That will probably never be the case with any EV, but having a huge range (550 or so mile range for the Expedition) does have its advantages even if it isn’t everyday. Trust me, nothing is worse than a kid waking up crying during a stop waking up the others.

 

[Gator42]

IMHO, the definitive statement on the subject:

Obsession with range is inversely proportional to how much remains

 

[sub]

Why are we so obsessed with Range? Unless you drive 100+ miles per day, I see no concern on a 260-320+ mi battery pack even with cold weather losses. That still leaves 150-200 miles of range which is plenty.

Driving a vehicle like this at max 65mph, not warming the cabin enough because of battery range, charging only on certain times due to battery degradation seems to me like way too much range anxiety.

Drive the truck at the speeds you want , heat up the cabin to what makes you comfortable, charge when needed and enjoy your Rivian.

Worrying so much about range and battery degradation takes the fun out of this. Enjoy in good health.

Well yes just about any EV has more than enough range for daily commute, but if you plan to use the vehicle for anything else, you will end up wishing you had more range.

For example, I took my Model 3 camping a few weeks ago. It was a bit of a disaster and it all could have been avoided if I had a bit more range.

After driving a few hours on the interstate, I stopped at a supercharger, charged to 95%, and then headed off into the middle of nowhere.

I arrived at the campsite with 55% remaining. Depending on vampire loss over the next few days, I should be able to make the return trip back to the supercharger with with around 10% to spare.

But then disaster. As I was setting up the tent, I realized I forgot to bring a lighter. Annoying, but not the end of the world, right? There was a gas station about 15 mi away that probably had a lighter.

Wrong. If I drive to that gas station and then back to the campsite, I won't have enough range to make it back to the supercharger. Tesla's navigator predicted negative 2%, and that was assuming 0 vampire loss.

A bit over 5 hours later I was able to get started on my campfire. If I had a bit more range initially, or if my battery had not degraded 10% over the last 3 years it would have only taken 20 minutes.

I ended up having to drive 2 hours back to the supercharger, spend an hour charging back up to 95%, and then another 2 hours back to the camp site just so I could stop and buy a $1 lighter.

 

[Zoidz]

I don't have an EV yet, but I'm not too worried about range anxiety. I have many years of power boating experience, as well as about 100 hours as a right seat passenger/unlicensed co-pilot in Cessnas and a King Air. You learn to plan, plan and plan again, with safety margins and alternate routes. Running out of fuel in an airplane or boat is much more stressful than either an ICE or an EV. ?

 

[mgc0216]

IMHO anyone taking long trips (round trips exceeding 80% of range) must be anxious enough to do careful planning. Especially when taking a trip to a destination you have not done before. The charging infrastructure in the vast majority of the US is minimal, poorly executed and maintained.

A long trip is 240 miles RT? I call that "Saturday" (or Sunday).

Your second point is 100% valid - EV road tripping (multiple days of 400+ miles) - requires planning and charging considerations are not equal in different parts of the country.

I've done two 2,000+ mile trips in the R1T since picking it up in late may. One required me to drive a route that was 2 hours longer than the optimal route because the optimal route didn't have enough DCFCs on it.

However the second trip there were chargers everywhere along the route and at both my major destinations (Yosemite and Disneyland). In all those trips I never hit a station I couldn't charge at. I did hit one station I chose not to as it was derated to 34kWh, but if I hadn't gotten myself in such a tizzy I would have realized I could have just used that charger, ate lunch (which was the original plan), and made it to the next stop as planned.

 

[crashmtb]

We are a one-vehicle family and need that vehicle to do everything from grocery shopping to towing a camper on long trips to remote places. The plan is for the Rivian to replace the vehicle that does that right now, a Telluride.

In winter, our drive is to the Mountain West, often in conditions similar to those that @crashmtb so elegantly described, often with more than a little of the white stuff either falling or blowing. The trips during the warmer months are usually with the camper in tow. My assumption is that in severe cold weather, and while towing, power consumption will be around (possibly below) the 1.0 mi per kWh mark. I don't think I'm obsessed with range; given my planed usage, a 135 kWh battery doesn't really seem like the best option, at least until the charging network is more extensive and robust.

I forgot to mention BIBLICAL WIND. ALL THE FSCKING TIME.

That impacts range too.

A further advantage to a bigger battery is charging to a percentage that is best for battery health nets a proportionally higher range/time between charging stops. i.e. 70% of a 180kwh battery is about the same as 100% of a 135kwh one.

 

[mpp]

Where I live you could easily drive 300 or 400 miles without passing any reasonable charging opportunities except maybe a campground or somebody's dryer or welder outlet. I have a Tesla Model S with 300 mile range and I do a 400-mile round trip most weekends and the charging gets tiresome because how long it takes. Its still the best long distance cruiser I have ever driven given the autopilot (really just excellent lane-keep and traffic aware cruise control). For my case, my range "anxiety" won't go away until we have 600+ mile range vehicles. It's not so much "anxiety" just planning that needs to be taken into consideration for any trip more than a 150 miles away or so which has rarely been a concern in a gas vehicle. Looking forward to my maxpack so I can have an electric truck. But keeping the Tesla because of the excellent supercharging network. Electrify America has decided to ignore Montana and no planned stations in the state except in the far west.

 

[mgc0216]

My parents live in a city of 100k people that is 180 miles away from me. There are ZERO chargers along the way and ZERO chargers in that town above 7kW.

I found a person on plug share with a NEMA 14-50 outdoor plug nearby that opens their gate for me when I show up.

Without that, the R1T would not be able to do that, right now. I expect that to change in the near future though.

My MILs house is about 200 miles from us, 160 miles from the nearest charger a long the way and they finally put a 200kW charger in town. There are two and last time I went both were broken....I had a plug that fit into her dryer outlet, and ran a 50' cable around and out to the truck to charge at like 8mph. That will likely also improve soon too

I am going hunting in two weeks that is 165 miles from the nearest fast charger. Oh, and I'm towing....expecting to go 55mph to try and make it to the campsite with just a couple of miles left. I am bringing along a 6kW generator and ten or more gallons of fuel to top her up in the forest. I don't expect that one to improve soon. Maybe the closest charger comes into like 80 or 50 miles away instead of 165, but would.probably still being the generator along so I can drive around out at the hunting site, deal with vampire drain over two weeks, etc.

No one obsesses about range for their 10 miles commute. The basic premise is silly. But for those of us that live out in the big west where the range limitations need to be worked around on an every couple of weeks basis it's good to have and see lots of discussions about how people deal with it.

I have I think 8 adapters in my frunk and the 50' extension cable. I've had to use quite a few of them....and bum some electrons from random good samaritans or go pay for an RV park spot with a 14-50 plug and leave it overnight.

This feels like a square peg in a round hole. If those scenarios are super common for you, why do you have an EV? (no judgement, genuinely curious)

 

[Turnipsaregreat]

WE are a single car family, and we've been making due for the last few years with a 2019 Nissan Leaf. In town, we can maybe get 200 miles range. On freeways that can go down to 170 or 180, or even 140 in the winter. We've made several long range trips and have to plan out very carefully charging stops. I have even been on trips where we need to drive right at or even below the speed limit, and even watch the power output going uphill and adjust speed down accordingly. Pulling into a station with 5% or less power remaining on battery can be frightening with today's charging infrastructure. Since putting in my R1S reservation, I've been dreaming of the extra range, faster charging, etc. In town, and most of the time, I don't worry about range. But for vacations and other trips, I "obsess" over range, because with the distance between charging opportunities, I have to.

 

[miasm]

This feels like a square peg in a round hole. If those scenarios are super common for you, why do you have an EV? (no judgement, genuinely curious)

Because for the other 25 days of the month my R1T is the god-damn best car on the road. By far.

Two of my 3 pain points will probably be solved by the end of next year (and I have executed work arounds for now), and the generator one will probably always be there. I would always take a 5 gallon or more gas can with me in the field anyways for safety with my ICE (don't want to get stuck in an ice storm with 1/8th of a tank of gas and a collapsed tent; choosing between having enough fuel to get out when the ice storm subsides and/or enough warmth to live through the night isn't fun -- and it's not hyperbole; mud slides occurring after said ice storm stranded 30 people up in my camping area for a couple of weeks shortly after I left a year or two ago. Local LEO helicopters were dropping food / water / blankets to them). So I also used to bring a small honda generator for emergency power if needed, and just upsized to a larger generator for the R1T. So my footprint for getting way out there with the R1T vs my ICE was basically only upsizing my generator.

And it has other good benefits. An area I go camping in had the nearest gas station go out of business. So, once you get there it became an ~90 mile trek back to get gas. But I could just plug my TT-30A splitter into the power pole for the little cottage (the other side of the splitter to power a friend's camper), set my Rivian to charge at like 10A and have full range while out there, while everyone else arrived with 1/4 tanks and the prospect of not wanting to explore too much due to gas concerns, I could go hoon my R1T around like an idiot through the dirt roads and mud without a care in the world about range. The rural electrification act back in the day put pretty good power waaaaay out in the middle of nowhere that can be its own benefit for having an EV vs ICE too.

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