What a difference a charger makes (Pasadena)

[Denver_Paulie]

...that escalated quickly ...

It did, and I apologize. Just tired of the ignorance.

Hard to be on this forum and enjoy the new owner stories when half of the posts end up being from some Tesla loving lunatic taking the proverbial turd in the punchbowl.

This is a community of Rivian owners, and soon to be owners. I don't give a $hit about some poorly made rattle trap Model 3 or Model Y Tesla or its charging network. Unless, the charging network opens up to all in the future.

I want to hear about Rivian, what people do with their Rivian's - both the good and the bad.

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[2020]

This is simply NOT TRUE and you need to educate yourself before spewing bull$hit on this site.

I have owned a Audi e-Tron and two Porsche Taycan's in the past three and a half years after owning multiple Model S' and multiple Model X's, so I come with much more experience than you in the EV world.

Is the CCS fast charging infrastructure as dense as Tesla's? It is almost there except for very remote places in eastern Montana or North Dakota. Last time I checked a Porsche Taycan owns the EV cannonball record, so tell me about the world of fast charging.

I am tired of hearing ignorant Tesla owners spew this kind of bull$hit and the blind belief that Tesla is the "the $hit" is why I will never buy another product from a company owned by Elon Musk again.

Easy Mr Denver. I'm here to humbly share my experience and learn from others. I'm also not new to the EV world having owned a few Cayenne hybrids, a Leaf, and currently 2 Tesla's and a Honda Clarity. All of my charging has been at home with level 2 chargers. Have taken a few 500 mile trips with the Tesla's with no issues. This is the first non Tesla full EV with a very large battery pack. I looked up all of the independent charging sites in the greater Atlanta area (Atlanta is a top 10 city with at least 6 million people and the futue site of a Rivian factory), I could barely find 5 charging sites with greater than 150kw charging capability. My only point was that the non Tesla fast charging stations are now where close to where they should be. So if I had to rely on a public charger to charge my Rivian in Atlanta I would be thoroughly disappointed.

 

[ajdelange]

In Tesla, you can't rely on the projected range because it doesn't take environmental and circumstantial factors into account.

They take terrain elevation, speed limit and maybe even weather into account. Their projections are quite accurate.

It's shown to be extremely accurate (at least if not more so than a human would be)

I am skeptical as their algorithm isn't as sophisticated as Tesla's and they certainly don't have the miles on the road that Tesla does plus there aren't that many Rivian drivers out there yet to give testimony,

I can see consumption in kwh/100mi, but it's only for curiosity sake, I've never had to apply it to anything in my travels.

I can certainly do the same but my curiosity is intense. I love to try to second guess the on-board navigator and understand exactly what is going on with the car to the fullest extent. I'm really going to miss the ability to do that.

Rivian has taken the approach they have because their data shows that 80% of orders are first time EV buyers, and so they want to make it as easy to understand as possible.

Yes, I understand that they have striven to "dumb it down". I don't think America needs to be dumbed down any more than it already has been.

 

[zefram47]

Well the Teslerati do know the Tesla side and there is so much excellent engineering there that even Sandy Munroe (who most would'nt consider ignorant) is left speechless. The super charging network as/is a stroke of genius. One can set out in a Tesla without much or any planning and be confident that he will be able to reach his destination with as much comfort (mental) as he could in his ICE car.

Any fool can pull up ABRP or PlugShare and see that the other "network" is approaching parity in terms of station density but we also see that if we plan a trip using the other network we are taken further off route to reach a high powered charger, that reports of stations down are much higher and that costs may well exceed what we used to pay in gas. Of course recent trends in gas prices may have more than "fixed" that problem. We still see the reviewers reporting "this terminal didn't work so we had to move to another one and that didn't work either so we had to call Electrofarad...." but we also see them reporting entire trips in which they had no charging issues on the CCS network. So we are encourages but still a little bit nervous. We'd love to try it out but we can't get a truck.

That's a lot of words to say that Tesla owners don't know the state of the CCS charging network. Hell, most Tesla owners don't understand the Tesla network. The only thing that really says is that Tesla's network is seemless enough that they don't *need* to understand how charging works...the car just routes them and works. Great for Tesla. But to proclaim that everyone else's EVs are useless because they don't have Tesla's charging network is patently bullshit and they are doing a disservice to EV ownership in general.

 

[zefram47]

They take terrain elevation, speed limit and maybe even weather into account. Their projections are quite accurate.

This is one area where I'll completely agree that Tesla has it figured out. Their route planning is pretty much the best in the industry, in part because their cars have access to all the data on the state of the charging network in addition to weather, traffic, and terrain. IIRC, Porsche may do some of that with the Taycan, but the rest of us are left to use ABRP if we want a similar experience, but it can't tell you about charger availability. In my experience, ABRP is quite accurate with consumption estimates based on terrain...and I do take trips into the mountains.

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Easy Mr Denver. I'm here to humbly share my experience and learn from others. I'm also not new to the EV world having owned a few Cayenne hybrids, a Leaf, and currently 2 Tesla's and a Honda Clarity. All of my charging has been at home with level 2 chargers. Have taken a few 500 mile trips with the Tesla's with no issues. This is the first non Tesla full EV with a very large battery pack. I looked up all of the independent charging sites in the greater Atlanta area (Atlanta is a top 10 city with at least 6 million people and the futue site of a Rivian factory), I could barely find 5 charging sites with greater than 150kw charging capability. My only point was that the non Tesla fast charging stations are now where close to where they should be. So if I had to rely on a public charger to charge my Rivian in Atlanta I would be thoroughly disappointed.

You're doing it wrong. You shouldn't need many high power charging stations in a city. Most of the driving in a city is very short distance and thus lower level charging is ideal for those situations. If you are leaving the city on a big trip you are planning ahead and charging your vehicle ahead of time. The only place you need high powered charging is on highways and other long-distance trip corridors.

For reference, Seattle is one of the most popular EV cities in the USA and I similarly see very few 150kw chargers in Seattle. Afaik this isn't an issue for the EV populace here.

 

[ajdelange]

Hard to be on this forum and enjoy the new owner stories when half of the posts end up being from some Tesla loving lunatic taking the proverbial turd in the punchbowl.

Well like it or not Teslas are the benchmark. Many of this first round of Rivian buyers are going to be Tesla owners because of this. This is a good thing because there is no better way to introduce a new entity into a market place than to tell potential buyers how it compares to a well known benchmark

 

[ajdelange]

...use ABRP if we want a similar experience, but it can't tell you about charger availability.

Yes, actually it can but it's going to cost you $50 a year.

 

[ajdelange]

That's a lot of words to say that Tesla owners don't know the state of the CCS charging network. Hell, most Tesla owners don't understand the Tesla network. The only thing that really says is that Tesla's network is seemless enough that they don't *need* to understand how charging works..

That's how a charging network should be; seamless from the visitors POV.

...the car just routes them and works.

It shouldn't matter whether the car sent you there or you arrived there on your own. You should be able to plug in and get a charge without having to do any thing else.

Great for Tesla.

It is great for Tesla. Their network is the Gold Standard. Any other network is going to be compared to Tesla's.

But to proclaim that everyone else's EVs are useless because they don't have Tesla's charging network is patently bullshit and they are doing a disservice to EV ownership in general.

I don't think I've actually heard anyone say that, at least not recently but we all know that the CCS network has had lots of growing pains and I think that you are absolutely right in your supposition that this has impeded the other OEMs ability to bring their vehicles to market. Let's hope that the recent improvements are sufficient to remove that impediment. Or that Telsa will open the SC network to all.

 

[Denver_Paulie]

Well like it or not Teslas are the benchmark. Many of this first round of Rivian buyers are going to be Tesla owners because of this. This is a good thing because there is no better way to introduce a new entity into a market place than to tell potential buyers how it compares to a well known benchmark

I agree, to a certain extent. However, many people share their opinion as facts when in fact they do not know.

For instance, take the comment above from the member who lives in Atlanta sharing that the CCS high speed charging network in greater Atlanta is not robust. That is simply not true. A simple review of Plugshare proves that the infrasture - even 150Kw chargers - is very robust.

These kind of lies hurt future Rivian owners.

Just because a person owns a rattle trap, panel gapped, poor handling mass produced piece of junk like a Model 3 or Model Y doesn't mean they know everything about the entire EV world. Try going on multiple extensive road trips in a CCS charging vehicle, and then comment. A person just sounds like an idiot when they comment on something they know nothing about and then get exposed.

My turn to take the proverbial turd in the punch bowl.

 

[Dirty_B]

... Unless, the charging network opens up to all in the future...

Well that just may in the cards since it happened in Europe this/last week.
From Electrek (It's still referred to as a pilot program):
Here’s the updated list of countries with Supercharger stations opened to non-Tesla owners:

• France
• Netherlands
• Norway
• UK
• Spain
• Sweden
• Belgium
• Austria

This in the end helps the consumer "win" IMO.

 

[abirozy]

No pics? What's the matter with you?

Pics to follow. ;-). Need to download after work.

 

[Denver_Paulie]

Well that just may in the cards since it happened in Europe this/last week.
From Electrek (It's still referred to as a pilot program):
Here’s the updated list of countries with Supercharger stations opened to non-Tesla owners:

• France
• Netherlands
• Norway
• UK
• Spain
• Sweden
• Belgium
• Austria

This in the end helps the consumer "win" IMO.

Yes, this is Tesla staying one foot ahead of anti-trust issues in a more regulated Europe.

I don't see this happening in the US until Elon Musk gets the attention he wants/craves. He does not do anything unless he is forced by regulations, or his ass is kissed enough and made to look like a savior.

You have to remember that Tesla acts on the whims of Elon Musk, and as a supreme narcissist, Elon Musk will not do anything unless he is worshipped enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[Acoustic71]

TINSSAAFL...

Did you mean TANSTAAFL, or am I just showing my age?

TANSTAAFL

 

[abirozy]

Sorry everyone. Here is the only pic I got. Will try to take more next time I need quick top off. Usually I will be charging at a lvl 2 at work.

BTW….I looked up station on PlugShare. I believe it is 175kwh but not positive.

best.

Adam

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