Will Gen3 hardware be included with R2 Launch Edition later?

[Gen(R3)Xer]

Here is a crazy twist I have not seen anywhere.

They keep making P LE models for everyone that has a reservation. But the premium launches with HW3 and no LE. In theory they could make HW3 models and LE models at the same time. The cost would be the same to end user.

A premium with Paint, Autonomy + and 21's is the exact same cost as a LE with Paint... This is exactly what Rivian will do...

Interesting. So how much does a non-Launch Performance cost then?

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[sparked]

I've got a bridge to sell you guys. It took them less than a year after releasing Gen 2 R1 before they disabled the Gen 1 autonomy camera and abandoned the Gen 1 autonomy platform entirely. A little over a year before UHF was released which was the first really significant feature improvement. That one year delay was little solace to the people driving around in one year old Gen 1 R1s with abandoned autonomy platforms.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Will it happen again the same way? Maybe, maybe not. Expect a repeat of their proven behavior and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen, or expect a corporation to be altruistic and lay all their cards on the table at the start of the game and get taken for a ride.

So you're saying there is going to be a huge difference on Day 1 between Gen 2 and Gen 3 autonomy and Rivian doesn't know what they are doing? So they're only promising Point to Point at the end of 2026, but you think they will have eyes off at the end of 2026 with Gen 3?

If you want advanced eyes off capability, definitely wait for Gen 3. But I'm very skeptical that Gen 3 software is going to miraculously be better on Day 1. They don't even Point to Point today to get parity with Tesla...

 

[lefkonj]

In my opinion the answer lies in the timing of it. If LIDAR is available by the end of the year maybe. Any longer than that no. I also don't think it will be free.

 

[rfkxyz]

It makes me wonder what the non-Launch R2 Performance will cost? There’s currently a $4,000 difference between the Premium and the Performance with Launch Package.

My guess is the announced pricing will hold for MY27.5 and Performance will transition from free stuff to Gen3 at same cost -

That said, I think Standard AWD is due to launch around summer 2027, so flip to MY28 could coincide with that? Maybe price hikes for Premium & Performance at that time but maintain $4k upcharge? Or maybe flip to MY28 happens later when Standard RWD launches? I do think they'll sell a few Standard RWD at already-announced pricing, but bump Premium & Performance when either Standard launches and/or MY28 - that creates more room under Premium for Standard LR and LR AWD.

So above pricing will have actual sales for each model but not at the same time.

 

[AirplaneDr]

Since I was a moron and leased an EV6 in late May

Don't' be to hard on yourself. EV6 is a really good car and you probably got a much better lease than anything Rivian is offering. Enjoy your car and let the rest of us deal with the R2 teething issues, Rivian will make more.

 

[NoMoreGas71]

Obviously nothing is known right now in terms of what pricing will be for the LIDAR/CHIP upgrade once available. Rivian will not reveal that for obvious reasons.

But lets assume the LE version is stopped in the fall and they begin offering the new R2's with LIDAR. Any guesses as to what that actual LIDAR price upgrade will be? At that point, If the Performance model is $57,990 (without the launch freebies)...what guesses do you have price-wise to add the LIDAR/CHIP? Does the Performance model then jump to $59,990 (with LIDAR) or 62/63K (with LIDAR)?

R2 will cost exactly the same as it does now when Gen3 starts rolling out. And they will still offer ”Launch Edition” if you want it. The price hike will be the fact that all the launch edition goodies are not included. So you’ll be paying about $3500 more if you want everything that comes for free with launch edition. And they will still offer launch edition to those who want it even after Gen3 ships, but it won’t include LIDAR or RAP1 chip. That way anyone who has made a reservation can take advantage of LE pricing if you want that and don’t want to pay more for Gen3 hardware.

 

[Jeremy3292]

There is a 0% chance Rivian offers Gen3 hardware with the launch edition package for the same price. Zero.

 

[MLW]

And they will still offer launch edition to those who want it even after Gen3 ships

I'm guessing like everyone else, but I think at the end of the year they'll issue "last call" on the Launch Edition and take as many orders as people want, but the volume will dry up pretty quick. The fact that everyone who made a reservation was told they could order LE as soon as January implies a low conversion rate. Based on Rivian's experience with Gen1 (and Tesla's experience with HW3), I think Rivian would prefer to move on to Gen3 as soon as they can.

This assumes that Gen3 design is final and the supply chain is building those components. As long as they don't have a delay, I don't think they'll keep making Gen2 when Gen3 is ready to go. If there is a delay, then we might see Gen2 offered in multiple trim levels. And, if demand slows, we see Launch edition or other incentives continue.

 

[srkz]

Twice, knowing that Rivian is relatively new at this and its autonomous suite is constantly under development AND subject to change... Against common sense, twice you decided to move forward and set yourself up for dissatisfaction? Seems to fit a certain definition.

Whether Rivian should be held liable for those changes... that's for the legal system and arbitration to decide. Join or start a class action. Calling me names isn't going to change how you feel about Rivian's broken promises. Yet, you thought it'd be more productive to call me a fool. So who's the fool? Twice is not enough? Line right up for R2 LiDAR then.

I never once called you a fool? You called *me* a fool for liking autonomy. And no, I haven’t been fooled twice, that’s the whole point of the adage - if you get fooled twice in the same way it’s your own fault, which is why I don’t believe them when they say pretty things about the launch edition this time around.

So you're saying there is going to be a huge difference on Day 1 between Gen 2 and Gen 3 autonomy and Rivian doesn't know what they are doing?

No, I said it only took them a year to diverge the last time and when they did they completely abandoned the previous gen. Dumped it in a heap of garbage and never looked back.

 

[Eric9610]

Interesting. So how much does a non-Launch Performance cost then?

Without the LE options it's just under $60k the current LE price is the P price. With all the LE options added after LE goes away mid $60k

 

[sparked]

No, I said it only took them a year to diverge the last time and when they did they completely abandoned the previous gen. Dumped it in a heap of garbage and never looked back.

But again, people know what they are getting with Gen 2 autonomy and point to point. If Rivian can't get Point to Point done on Gen 2, their autonomy ambitions are dead as that software stack is fundamental to Gen 3. They can't abandon it as it doesn't work that way anymore.

This isn't even that huge of an ask either as it largely gets them to what Tesla is doing. It's not a hardware issue like with Gen 1 owners.

 

[Jeremy3292]

But again, people know what they are getting with Gen 2 autonomy and point to point. If Rivian can't get Point to Point done on Gen 2, their autonomy ambitions are dead as that software stack is fundamental to Gen 3. They can't abandon it as it doesn't work that way anymore.

This isn't even that huge of an ask either as it largely gets them to what Tesla is doing. It's not a hardware issue like with Gen 1 owners.

Yeah I believe the current R2 hardware is as capable as Tesla AI4 currently in many metrics.

 

[Eric9610]

Yeah I believe the current R2 hardware is as capable as Tesla AI4 currently in many metrics.

I would say even better with the radar sensors.

 

[srkz]

If Rivian can't get Point to Point done on Gen 2, their autonomy ambitions are dead as that software stack is fundamental to Gen 3.

I think it’s not about what they can or can’t do, and is more about what they determine to be economically advantageous to do.

If for example they come up with a game-changing model that runs great on gen 3 but Gen 2 hardware can’t handle it anymore due to compute speed or memory bandwidth or whatever - they’re just going to freeze Gen 2 on the last good model and keep developing for Gen 3. It would be entirely possible for them to develop two models or focus on keeping the model lightweight enough to be backwards compatible but it’s also entirely possible that they choose not to do that because the future upside of focusing on Gen 3 is determined to be so much better for the company than the downside of freezing Gen 2.

They wouldn’t have developed a faster compute module if they thought they’d never use it, so what we’re talking about really is when that decision gets made, not if.

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