EPA Range Finalized / Published (R2 Performance)

[portdirect]

using the following: https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=65095&flag=1 and fitting it to the numbers published at energyefficiency.org:

Vehicle	EPA doc raw CD range	EPA doc raw highway CD range	Raw 55/45 blend	Published EPA range	Inferred EPA factor	Effective city range	Effective highway range	55/45 final check
2027 Rivian R2 Performance AWD, 21 in	487.457 mi	410.871 mi	452.993 mi	330 mi	0.7285	355.1 mi	299.3 mi	330.0 mi
2027 Rivian R2 Performance AWD, 20 in AT	478.980 mi	392.100 mi	439.884 mi	307 mi	0.6979	334.3 mi	273.7 mi	307.0 mi

Interpretation:

• The 20 in AT result is effectively the standard 0.700 adjustment path.
• The 21 in result is not. It uses an effective adjustment factor of about 0.7285, which is why it lands at 330 miles instead of about 317 miles from a simple 0.700 multiplier.

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[Yossarian]

You forget, not every motorist is a homeowner. And not every motorist and homeowner has a garage or driveway. There are people who live in apartments or condos with subterranean or communal parking that have no charging infrastructure whatsoever, and landlords or HOAs who have no interest in the challenges of installing one.

The best path to accelerating EV adoption in the US is for 5 minute fast charging to be almost everywhere, just like gas station fill-ups. And that requires big changes in legislation and politics. No small feat, especially now. The reason China is able to achieve what it has, is their government, industry, utilities and population are all on the same page (while we debate what's fake/real news).

You make a very important point with regard to access to L2 charging, one that I believe is overlooked and may be the single greatest impediment to greater EV adoption. An L2 EVSE is relatively inexpensive both to buy and to install, and just as importantly, large numbers of them can be accommodated without the major infrastructure upgrades that L3 chargers require. We should be putting large numbers of them parking lots everywhere, from apartment buildings to public parks. While the cost for this is fairly modest, some incentive is still necessary. Such support is unlikely to come from the federal level, at least under the present administration but given the fairly modest costs (compared to DCFC), state and local governments could step up.

Public fast-charging is important, and closing the time gap between DCFC and gasoline fueling would surely help considerably with EV adoption. I'd argue that making large numbers of L2 chargers available to apartment and condo dwellers, renters in single family homes and to homeowners of modest means would yield even EV adoption.

 

[DuoRivian]

You make a very important point with regard to access to L2 charging, one that I believe is overlooked and may be the single greatest impediment to greater EV adoption. An L2 EVSE is relatively inexpensive both to buy and to install, and just as importantly, large numbers of them can be accommodated without the major infrastructure upgrades that L3 chargers require. We should be putting large numbers of them parking lots everywhere, from apartment buildings to public parks. While the cost for this is fairly modest, some incentive is still necessary. Such support is unlikely to come from the federal level, at least under the present administration but given the fairly modest costs (compared to DCFC), state and local governments could step up.

Public fast-charging is important, and closing the time gap between DCFC and gasoline fueling would surely help considerably with EV adoption. I'd argue that making large numbers of L2 chargers available to apartment and condo dwellers, renters in single family homes and to homeowners of modest means would yield even EV adoption.

Totally agree - relatively easy to get these installed at major malls, cinemas etc to enable people to charge while doing other things.

 

[mkhuffman]

You make a very important point with regard to access to L2 charging, one that I believe is overlooked and may be the single greatest impediment to greater EV adoption. An L2 EVSE is relatively inexpensive both to buy and to install, and just as importantly, large numbers of them can be accommodated without the major infrastructure upgrades that L3 chargers require. We should be putting large numbers of them parking lots everywhere, from apartment buildings to public parks. While the cost for this is fairly modest, some incentive is still necessary. Such support is unlikely to come from the federal level, at least under the present administration but given the fairly modest costs (compared to DCFC), state and local governments could step up.

Public fast-charging is important, and closing the time gap between DCFC and gasoline fueling would surely help considerably with EV adoption. I'd argue that making large numbers of L2 chargers available to apartment and condo dwellers, renters in single family homes and to homeowners of modest means would yield even EV adoption.

I am mostly on the same page with you.

I am 100% opposed to government incentives for L2, and I think the market will naturally do it when enough people are driving BEVs to make it economically beneficial. Building them before it is economically beneficial is wasteful, and I don't want my money wasted by unelected government bureaucrats.

We don't agree about funding source, but I 100% agree we need more L2. IMO destination charging is the answer. It is the one thing no liquid fuel powered vehicle can match: the ability to refuel while you sleep.

Once range is long enough, most travel won't need a DCFC stop if there is destination charging available. And available means "available", not like today when there are two hotel EVSEs, one of which is broken, and the other is occupied by the fully charged a-hole who thinks he owns the space. LOL.

If I owned a hotel, I totally would invest my own money to put in a crap ton of L2 stations. I would charge a reasonable price per kWh (enough to provide some return on the investment) and would include an idle fee to stop the charging space hogs.

BTW - I have noticed that when the hotel EVSE isn't free, availability is usually very good. When it is "free", the a-holes hog it. I hate free charging. It should be banned.

 

[ronbauer]

Not sure it is "absolutely phenomenal." It is middle of the pack.

My point has more to do with comparing to what was the norm. Of note, all of the vehicles in your sheet are EVs and obviously the efficiency of them is highly taken into account when designing. Packaging can be done differently compared to ICE cars to help the cd. Rivian chose to do something different in design than most EVs manufactured with the 2 box setup. Given that, I stand by my previous comment.

As a reference, here are the cds on 2 of my other cars.

2013 Audi SQ5 - 0.33
2021 Porsche GT4 - 0.34

I argue that both of these cars were pretty good for their time (Porsche started the current body style in 2017) and in comparison, the R2 is WAY better.

If you want a fun 2 box comparison, our 2001 Suburban is 0.45!

 

[SDH]

It's in the ball park. Efficiency is pretty good. That's all that matters to me. Don't stress about every single mile/kw because a headwind, extra weight, slightly heavy right foot and it all changes anyway.

Don't overthink it.

 

[cusetownusa]

Totally agree - relatively easy to get these installed at major malls, cinemas etc to enable people to charge while doing other things.

hotels. Why can’t more hotels have a place to plug in. I try to always go to ones that do but that isn’t always feasible. Makes traveling so much more enjoyable with an EV.

 

[tivoboy]

hotels. Why can’t more hotels have a place to plug in. I try to always go to ones that do but that isn’t always feasible. Makes traveling so much more enjoyable with an EV.

These days out west a LOT of hotels have Tesla destination charges it’s just that there aren’t very many of them per location and they usually only deliver maybe 72kw or less and there is either no rhyme or reason or system to manage multiple ppl who need to charge at them or they are behind some valet paywall. Tesla has a whole different setting in cars and the app to show all the destination charges and I’m sure Rivian can display them in the car.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

You forget, not every motorist is a homeowner. And not every motorist and homeowner has a garage or driveway. There are people who live in apartments or condos with subterranean or communal parking that have no charging infrastructure whatsoever, and landlords or HOAs who have no interest in the challenges of installing one.

The best path to accelerating EV adoption in the US is for 5 minute fast charging to be almost everywhere, just like gas station fill-ups. And that requires big changes in legislation and politics. No small feat, especially now. The reason China is able to achieve what it has, is their government, industry, utilities and population are all on the same page (while we debate what's fake/real news).

The best path to accelerating EV adoption is to develop (we can’t import) 5 min battery tech and deploy the massive infrastructure to charge at that speed all over the US? Eh?

The widely accepted and more logical best path is to incentivize high amp L2 charger installs in existing buildings and new builds. They can be put in parking garages for apartments. Anywhere really. With modest infrastructure layout. And it allows everyone to charge overnight right where they live.

 

[gd_r1t]

Give me that miles per kw, that makes a lot more sense to me

Not to be that guy, but this doesn't make sense either. Miles per kWh would make sense though.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

hotels. Why can’t more hotels have a place to plug in. I try to always go to ones that do but that isn’t always feasible. Makes traveling so much more enjoyable with an EV.

We usually pick hotels with reliable chargers, using PlugShare to identify which they are.

We always tell hotel staff that the reliability of their charger played a BIG role in our choice to stay there.

The market works, if we insist on reliable chargers and if we tell people that's what we're doing.

Best wishes!

 

[AlphaSnowbordergirl]

Not sure it is "absolutely phenomenal." It is middle of the pack.

I'm just going to say I have a hard time believe the CD of the R2 is the same as the efficiency as the R1. when it's lower to the ground. It is an estimate they used, but still don't think it'll be equal to the R1S.

 

[usulio]

I'm just going to say I have a hard time believe the CD of the R2 is the same as the efficiency as the R1. when it's lower to the ground. It is an estimate they used, but still don't think it'll be equal to the R1S.

CD is just a function of shape. It doesn't measure total air resistance. There's other factors, a big one is size: if you shrink an object down, it has the same CD but less air resistance.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Interpretation:

• The 20 in AT result is effectively the standard 0.700 adjustment path.
• The 21 in result is not. It uses an effective adjustment factor of about 0.7285, which is why it lands at 330 miles instead of about 317 miles from a simple 0.700 multiplier.

Explain it to me like I’m 5. I’m not understanding what any of that means. Are you saying that Rivian is playing a little fast and loose with the 21-inch wheels to eke out a higher EPA rating?

 

[portdirect]

Explain it to me like I’m 5. I’m not understanding what any of that means. Are you saying that Rivian is playing a little fast and loose with the 21-inch wheels to eke out a higher EPA rating?

Not fast and loose at all - mfrs can either use a 0.7 multiplier to go from the dyno results to ‘real world’ or use a series of factors to produce a potentially more accurate result. Rivian do the latter for all the measurements they have done to date - which actually shows a minuscule disadvantage over using the 0.7 factor for the 20” option - or they just decided to use it and I’m not accounting for rounding. The thing that I find interesting about the breakdown I did above is how hard they worked to get to the 300 mile highway range - 299 miles and some change under EPA parameters shows how much they tuned the platform for that metric - impressive.

That said I personally am in the MOAR range camp for now as real world I expect the R1 to provide around 225 miles day-to-day range (85% to 10% SOC), still plenty for commuting but starting to get a bit tight on a 100 mile round trip - at least here in the Midwest with me operating my leaden foot as lightly as I can self control myself. R2 looks great - but I’m sticking to R1 for now.

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