Rivian Peak Charge Rate

[E.S.]

My guess is no. The new motors have 300 horsepower I think you would need to charge configurations. That is where someone was speculating a hyped up quad motor with 1200 horsepower could be coming.

The prospect of this is just as frightening (to me) as it is as impressive. 1.2k hp on an already heavy vehicle is pushing a significant amount of mass. Accidents on these vehicles are going to be legendary

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[kanundrum]

It would make sense for them to design the new motors to be easily modified to accommodate all variants so they're in full control of that supply chain, reduces variation in the components, and get everything on 800v.

That's what 5 years away at this point

 

[SeaGeo]

That's what 5 years away at this point

Between 0 and 8. Maybe 1.5. Maybe 7.

 

[bael]

That's what 5 years away at this point

Between 0 and 8. Maybe 1.5. Maybe 7.

So what you’re saying is

s00n?

 

[aw113sgte]

Having a 800 volt setup is not going to allow the batteries to charge faster in most situations. Look at the current 400 volt setup and we can see that we're not even close to its capability due to the tapering of current allowed in the battery. 800 volts is not some magical thing that's going to improve that.

 

[Joel]

Having a 800 volt setup is not going to allow the batteries to charge faster in most situations. Look at the current 400 volt setup and we can see that we're not even close to its capability due to the tapering of current allowed in the battery. 800 volts is not some magical thing that's going to improve that.

But 800v is better for the batteries. It’s also less heat so the charging cables and other parts don’t get as hot. This equals faster charger as it doesn’t tapper as quick.

 

[zefram47]

Having a 800 volt setup is not going to allow the batteries to charge faster in most situations. Look at the current 400 volt setup and we can see that we're not even close to its capability due to the tapering of current allowed in the battery. 800 volts is not some magical thing that's going to improve that.

While you're not really wrong, the current state of the CCS charging networks means that many chargers won't get you the 500A at 400V the SAE spec dictates. Meaning you won't even get the 200 kW claimed. From various outlets that do a lot of charging tests, 350A at 400V is more typical, which is around 140 kW. Those same chargers are capable of upwards of 300-350 kW at 900-1000V.

 

[bd5400]

It was a recent Motortrend article that speculated a “quad motor with 1200 horsepower could be coming.”

I would imagine that we'll also see a tri-motor, 900hp version. That one could be the true replacement, power-wise, for the current quad motor, and then that would leave room above for an even more expensive model with 1,200hp.

 

[aw113sgte]

But 800v is better for the batteries. It’s also less heat so the charging cables and other parts don’t get as hot. This equals faster charger as it doesn’t tapper as quick.

The actual voltage going into each cell is going to be the same with a 400 versus 800 system. It's totally true that the cables carrying the high voltage could be thinner however the individual batteries will still have the same voltage and current. So yes there will be a slight increase in efficiency just in those main cables but once they break out you don't gain any efficiency at that location.
My main point was when we look at the charge curves of the R1T we spike at 180 to 190, but quite rapidly drop from there. Going to an 800 volt system when we are already being limited is going to make a very minor difference unless they have plans to open up the charging rate of the batteries.

 

[manitou202]

Has Rivian shown any details of their battery pack design? Especially how the cells are cooled? I know they use 2170 cells, but the way they are cooled, monitored, and packaged is critical for ultimate battery charging performance.

Lucid's recent video from the CEO was top notch and really shows that Lucid is at the top of the game when it comes to engineering an EV powertrain. I'm not convinced Rivian is in the same league. I believe they have done an incredible job redesigning what a truck and SUV can be, but I'm not so sure about their battery and powertrain technology.

This is concerning for me because of the recent charging curves that have been posted. If they didn't properly design the cooling of the battery cells, then the R1 series may be limited on how long it can sustain a high rate of charge. Lucid got this right out of the gate. So far the data from Rivian is lacking and concerning. Taking a long road trip and needing to stop for 45-60 minutes every two hours will be a step backward in the EV experience.

 

[ajbrutman]

I know this is late, but for those who do not understand how they are calculating the Power(watts) the equation is P=IV where P is Power(watts) = I current(amps) multiplied by V electric potential(volts).

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Has Rivian shown any details of their battery pack design? Especially how the cells are cooled? I know they use 2170 cells, but the way they are cooled, monitored, and packaged is critical for ultimate battery charging performance.

Lucid's recent video from the CEO was top notch and really shows that Lucid is at the top of the game when it comes to engineering an EV powertrain. I'm not convinced Rivian is in the same league. I believe they have done an incredible job redesigning what a truck and SUV can be, but I'm not so sure about their battery and powertrain technology.

This is concerning for me because of the recent charging curves that have been posted. If they didn't properly design the cooling of the battery cells, then the R1 series may be limited on how long it can sustain a high rate of charge. Lucid got this right out of the gate. So far the data from Rivian is lacking and concerning. Taking a long road trip and needing to stop for 45-60 minutes every two hours will be a step backward in the EV experience.

 

[manitou202]

This helps a bit. Looks like they are cooling/heating the bottom of the battery cell. That apparently is a better design versus cooling/heating the sides of the battery like the current Tesla setup. Still not a lot of detail however. No details on the heat transfer plate, or the rest of the system. We know they aren't using a heat pump which is a negative for overall efficiency, but probably not a factor when charging. Maybe they still haven't optimized the charging profile, or possibly the 400V architecture will be a limiting factor.

 

[SeaGeo]

Having a 800 volt setup is not going to allow the batteries to charge faster in most situations. Look at the current 400 volt setup and we can see that we're not even close to its capability due to the tapering of current allowed in the battery. 800 volts is not some magical thing that's going to improve that.

They're hitting the 500amp limit (or should be) at 400v pretty easily. Given the size of the battery, that's a less aggressive peak than the ID.4 curve for example. So it's a pretty conservative for peak speeds, and appears fairly conservative overall. There's a good chunk of their implied curve (140 miles/ 20 minutes) that's limited by the 400v architecture and not the battery pack limitations. There quite a few other manufacturers with much more aggressive curves, so unless their pack design is very subpar or they have significantly undersized the cooling system the battery shouldn't be the limiting factor. Even just adopting Lucid's curve and adjusting it for size you'd see a significant increase in charging rate that's limited by the 400v architecture through about 50%. Which makes sense, since that seems to be roughly where the R1T is intended to start to taper based on the data points provided by employees.

It will be really interesting to see what Kyle is able to pull from it in his reviews to see how it performs relative to their stated/implied curve.

This is concerning for me because of the recent charging curves that have been posted. If they didn't properly design the cooling of the battery cells, then the R1 series may be limited on how long it can sustain a high rate of charge. Lucid got this right out of the gate. So far the data from Rivian is lacking and concerning. Taking a long road trip and needing to stop for 45-60 minutes every two hours will be a step backward in the EV experience.

I would very much not panic yet. Timesink's curve doesn't look particularly representative and it's one data point. Remember, Rivian has quotes 140 miles/20 minutes. I know I've seen employee charging data points weeks ago that would support that claim.

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