Cascade passes day trip, range, charging, and driver+ reports in R1T

[azbill]

Typically if the charging session starts slow or not at all, then it's a problem with the EA charger. If it hits a good peak and then goes down, then it's the vehicles software. This curve points heavily to Rivian's software.

The typical issue with EA chargers is when they lose cable cooling capability. If that occurs the current gets limited to 125A, I have seen a publication from Siemens about this. Without liquid cooling the cables and connectors will overheat at higher currents.

The EA ABB chargers seem to have this issue frequently. I have 2 EVs with 400V systems (360 nominal), and both get only about 43 kw when the cooling is not functioning in the charging station. At least EA is smart enough to allow some charging in this case, rather than taking the station completely out of service. I have actually never seen this issue at an EA Signet charger, that brand is much better than ABB, and most newer EA chargers are from Signet. Signet chargers are all rated up to 500A, while ABB are either 350A (150kw) or 450A (350kw).

I have never seen any of the EA 150kw chargers actually exceed 150kw. The EA App is known to report higher peak numbers after the session, but it is lying.

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[Ralph]

Yeah, absolutely agree on this. They should have developed Driver+ with Adaptive Cruise with competent Lane Centering on all roads at launch, and then focused on upgrading the technologies.

Hopefully this is a sign that they think they can deliver Adaptive Cruise and Lane Centering quickly. You could get both of those pretty well done 5 years ago or more in ICE vehicles.

 

[SeaGeo]

The typical issue with EA chargers is when they lose cable cooling capability. If that occurs the current gets limited to 125A, I have seen a publication from Siemens about this. Without liquid cooling the cables and connectors will overheat at higher currents.

The EA ABB chargers seem to have this issue frequently. I have 2 EVs with 400V systems (360 nominal), and both get only about 43 kw when the cooling is not functioning in the charging station. At least EA is smart enough to allow some charging in this case, rather than taking the station completely out of service. I have actually never seen this issue at an EA Signet charger, that brand is much better than ABB, and most newer EA chargers are from Signet. Signet chargers are all rated up to 500A, while ABB are either 350A (150kw) or 450A (350kw).

Yeah, I am pretty confused by the behavior of this station this weekend. None of the chargers put out the energy I was expecting, the rate wasn't consistent charger to charger, and the ramp up was weird (it would increase, then dip, then increase, then dip a bit, and then plateau early). But Timesinks pulling nearly 200kw initially is even more weird. Given how new the installation was, I was fully expecting to have a flawless charging session on my way up to leavenworth.

It will be really interesting to see what Kyle is able to test with the loaner truck this week.

 

[No.92]

The three systems are different to each other, and personally Ford's BlueCruise is the better implementation and Driver+ is in the bottom, of all the ADAS systems right now.

1. Blue Cruise - Is fully hands free in geofenced/mapped areas, and then becomes Copilot 360 with Adaptive Cruise and Lane Centering everywhere else without handsfree.

2. Autopilot - Is Adaptive Cruise and Lane Centering everywhere without hands free. With FSD it does lane changes and on ramps and exit ramps.

3. Driver+ - Is Adaptive cruise with lane centering in geofenced HWYs, while just adaptive cruise without lane centering everywhere else. Which makes this the least advanced system in the market, especially compared to current implementations.

Even though Ford BlueCruise is the better implementation, Tesla Autopilot is a more mature and confident system due to their length of development.

Rivian has a long way to go to get the Driver+ system up to current standards and I am really hoping they are aggressively working on it.

I don't know if you're saying this because of what it appears like on paper but I rented a Ford Explorer over the holidays for over a month and while generally on a straight away highway it was good, when turns came I had to intervene several times. Also when approaching a slower vehicles seemed like an adventure. It came up on vehicles too fast. I never felt at ease. I did find the fact that it worked well on almost all highways.

 

[timesinks]

Might be counterintuitive, but have you tried the Stiff setting in Conserve / Low or Lowest? I think Jason Cammisa mentioned similar concerns about the suspension in Low/Lowest and said it felt like it was hitting the bump stops a lot. While the ride would be stiffer, I'm curious if stiffer damping would prevent the crashiness of hitting the bump stops.

I did a quick trip and used sport mode today (lowest / stiff). I found the lowest ride height to be a lot more comfortable with the suspension set to stiff, so this is a good tip. Will have to verify if that's available in conserve.

On a totally unrelated note, I'm definitely going to get my first speeding ticket in this truck. ?

Thanks much for this @timesinks! What brand/size hammock do you have and are you pleased with it? I’ve got an 8 month old Bernese Mountain Dog that’s already 110 lbs! I hope he fits back there when he’s full grown.

The dog hammock is a well-reviewed amazon find from a few years ago that's held up quite well. Honestly not sure exactly which one it is though; it doesn't have recognizable branding on it. I think it might be one of the URPOWER ones.

 

[SeaGeo]

The dog hammock is a well-reviewed amazon find from a few years ago that's held up quite well. Honestly not sure exactly which one it is though; it doesn't have recognizable branding on it. I think it might be one of the URPOWER ones

I have this one @Gshenderson. It's our third hammock, and out favorite so far. Depending on hair, you may not want the mesh though. The zip up sides are nice for containing the hair though.
iBuddy Dog Seat Cover with Mesh Window 100% Waterproof Car Seat Covers for Dogs Durable Pet Seat Cover for Back Seat with Side Flaps Washable Dog Car Hammock Against Dirt and Dog Fur for Car and SUV

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[OverZealous]

On a totally unrelated note, I'm definitely going to get my first speeding ticket in this truck. ?

I believe it. I always describe our Model S as the only care I've ever accidentally gone over 100mph in. Happens all the time, too—it's so smooth and so quick to get up there, you don't even feel like you are speeding.

 

[Attesan997]

Yeah, absolutely agree on this. They should have developed Driver+ with Adaptive Cruise with competent Lane Centering on all roads at launch, and then focused on upgrading the technologies.

Hopefully this can be addressed in an update. After years of using "FSD" on long stretches of highway, and some of that in traffic, I wouldn't mind a simpler system. Something that doesn't gun it to catch up to the car in front or wait until the last minute to slow down. And something that can keep me centered in the lane for the stretches at 70 mph. I'm glad to hear the Rivian adjusts speed based on steering angle, much better for my nerves.

 

[rraj2k81]

Hopefully this can be addressed in an update. After years of using "FSD" on long stretches of highway, and some of that in traffic, I wouldn't mind a simpler system. Something that doesn't gun it to catch up to the car in front or wait until the last minute to slow down. And something that can keep me centered in the lane for the stretches at 70 mph. I'm glad to hear the Rivian adjusts speed based on steering angle, much better for my nerves.

Yeah, I am with you. I just want a simple system that can do Dynamic Cruise Control with a competent lane centering on all roads. It does not need to get any more complicated or 'smart' than this.

If Hyundai was able to develop one of the best systems, I don't see why Rivian can't.

 

[rraj2k81]

I don't know if you're saying this because of what it appears like on paper but I rented a Ford Explorer over the holidays for over a month and while generally on a straight away highway it was good, when turns came I had to intervene several times. Also when approaching a slower vehicles seemed like an adventure. It came up on vehicles too fast. I never felt at ease. I did find the fact that it worked well on almost all highways.

Yeah, my assessment is based on the features and implementations on paper. I have not had a chance to test drive Blue Cruise with Co-pilot 360 in the newer vehicles. But based on experience Autopilot is the most sure footed, as Tesla has been developing it for almost a decade.

Rivian should be working on getting something similar to Autopilot or Hyundai's HWDA implemented in the Driver+, instead of what they are doing right now.

 

[JPRivian]

One of the points I was really surprised by from your write-up was that it cost you $28 to get ~120 miles of range added back (and realistically 110 miles since the range is generally overestimated).

Most trucks get about ~20mpg on highways these days so call it 6 gallons of gas equivalent for $28 and that's $4.66/gal. I'll personally be moving from a 30mpg SUV so even worse there (for me personally).

Is this really what to expect the cost for charging to be? I have never owned an electric vehicle and I thought charging was supposed to be significantly less expensive than gas. I realize charging at home for me will be great and to expect 250 miles of range to cost just $8 in Idaho. But man, charging outside of home will be just as or more expensive than gas. And who knows if it'll get more or less expensive as time goes on.

I'm still ignorant on electric so any thoughts (or corrections) to what I said would be appreciated! I also understand this is a small gripe considering the truck is roughly 80k, it's just surprising to me is all.

Side question, how often do people on this forum with electric cars find themselves using charging stations compared to just charging from home?

 

[SeaGeo]

Is this really what to expect the cost for charging to be? I have never owned an electric vehicle and I thought charging was supposed to be significantly less expensive than gas. I realize charging at home for me will be great and to expect 250 miles of range to cost just $8 in Idaho. But man, charging outside of home will be just as or more expensive than gas. And who knows if it'll get more or less expensive as time goes on.

You nailed it. It's significantly less with home charging. Or if you can find a level 2 charger, it's usually pretty cheap as well. DCFC is generally going to be fairly expensive. IMO, EA is actually surprisingly inexpensive given a lot of the costs they can incur.

 

[timesinks]

One of the points I was really surprised by from your write-up was that it cost you $28 to get ~120 miles of range added back (and realistically 110 miles since the range is generally overestimated).

Most trucks get about ~20mpg on highways these days so call it 6 gallons of gas equivalent for $28 and that's $4.66/gal. I'll personally be moving from a 30mpg SUV so even worse there (for me personally).

Is this really what to expect the cost for charging to be? I have never owned an electric vehicle and I thought charging was supposed to be significantly less expensive than gas. I realize charging at home for me will be great and to expect 250 miles of range to cost just $8 in Idaho. But man, charging outside of home will be just as or more expensive than gas. And who knows if it'll get more or less expensive as time goes on.

I'm still ignorant on electric so any thoughts (or corrections) to what I said would be appreciated! I also understand this is a small gripe considering the truck is roughly 80k, it's just surprising to me is all.

Side question, how often do people on this forum with electric cars find themselves using charging stations compared to just charging from home?

Most miles will be added at home where we pay about $0.13/kWh or roughly 6.5 cents per mile. Based on our driving habits, I suspect at least 80-90% of our miles will be paid for at these rates.

For the rare times we're charging on the road, there's is a bit of a premium for it. But if you allocated a year of driving with 80% cheap miles and 20% expensive miles, it'll still be way cheaper than an ICE pickup for the same driving.

EVGo had much lower rates, and I think both have a membership subscription that gets you a discount as well. But considering it's not just the electricity itself but also the capital for the site, installation, and hardware as well as the operational costs of having staff to provide support and fix problems, I think the rates are quite reasonable.

 

[JPRivian]

Thank you guys for the responses! You're really helping out on what to expect.

 

[zefram47]

One of the points I was really surprised by from your write-up was that it cost you $28 to get ~120 miles of range added back (and realistically 110 miles since the range is generally overestimated).

Most trucks get about ~20mpg on highways these days so call it 6 gallons of gas equivalent for $28 and that's $4.66/gal.

Side question, how often do people on this forum with electric cars find themselves using charging stations compared to just charging from home?

I haven't owned a long-range EV yet, but my short range cars have covered >90% usual driving needs. Of that, I rarely use DC fast chargers...I'd estimate 90-95% of my charging is at home and with a larger battery that will be even more. I'm also coming from a 4Runner that is probably 15-17 mpg around town and 15-18 mpg on the highway...so DCFC on a trip should still be cheaper. Some states don't allow charging companies to sell electricity (i.e. by the kWh) so they charge per minute use fees instead. In those cases, you really want to charge with DCFC in an ideal part of the charge curve...which we'll have to wait for Kyle / Out of Spec's data to really know. In other words, for most EVs you want to do DCFC from a low state of charge to somewhere in the realm of 50-80% depending on where the large taper occurs if you're trying to keep costs down.

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