Could the R1S become the premier airport hauler over the Suburban and Escalade?

[Bee]

Yes, I think it will be added to that list of acceptable vehicles. It will be a premium SUV. But it would not be "the premier airport hauler over the Suburban and Escalade".

I consider saving $65 / day while still keeping the customers happy who choose whether or not to book my vehicle in advance, the premier over the Suburban and Escalade yes.

I'm asking as a driver, not as a passenger.

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[swazi]

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[SJCr1s]

I consider saving $65 / day while still keeping the customers happy who choose whether or not to book my vehicle in advance, the premier over the Suburban and Escalade yes.

I'm asking as a driver, not as a passenger.

Without knowing your market I would say the R1S is overkill for a “cab” company.

As a black car it would be dependent on your clients. In terms of legroom it’s slightly smaller than the GM equivalents and about half the rear cargo space (some of it recovered in the frunk)

For my clients it would work fine, very rarely do I ever have six riders AND a ton of luggage, it’s usually one or the other.

For the guy that’s crawling around West LA picking up Uber Scumbags it’s gonna be too small. Uber will grant it XL status (which is bottom tier folks, XL IS NOT luxury) but UberBlackSUV is a stretch.

Consider your charging situation too. For me two trips to LAX and back would eat up most of an r1s battery.

If RJ wants to make a big environmental difference there’s hundred of Suburbans at every major airport in this country that could be replaced. The R1S is the closest thing any maker has come to matching the Burb/Yukon/Escalade/Navigators but still not quite there.

It needs to be about 18 inches longer, more cargo, more third row space, captain seats in the middle row. Lose the glass roof. Get the range above 500mi. Add a built in dash cam. Cut back on bells and whistles and focus on BIG AND LONG RANGE. Do that and the livery industry is there for the taking. Suburbans are king now because there is no better choice. Not because they’re all that great.

 

[Bee]

The Market is NYC where people drive Escalades, not overkill.

Without knowing your market I would say the R1S is overkill for a “cab” company.

As a black car it would be dependent on your clients. In terms of legroom it’s slightly smaller than the GM equivalents and about half the rear cargo space (some of it recovered in the frunk)

For my clients it would work fine, very rarely do I ever have six riders AND a ton of luggage, it’s usually one or the other.

For the guy that’s crawling around West LA picking up Uber Scumbags it’s gonna be too small. Uber will grant it XL status (which is bottom tier folks, XL IS NOT luxury) but UberBlackSUV is a stretch.

Consider your charging situation too. For me two trips to LAX and back would eat up most of an r1s battery.

If RJ wants to make a big environmental difference there’s hundred of Suburbans at every major airport in this country that could be replaced. The R1S is the closest thing any maker has come to matching the Burb/Yukon/Escalade/Navigators but still not quite there.

It needs to be about 18 inches longer, more cargo, more third row space, captain seats in the middle row. Lose the glass roof. Get the range above 500mi. Add a built in dash cam. Cut back on bells and whistles and focus on BIG AND LONG RANGE. Do that and the livery industry is there for the taking. Suburbans are king now because there is no better choice. Not because they’re all that great.

I'm in NYC which is essentially if you have 4 wheels, and if Uber will let you drive it and you can maintain the stars, you're good to go.

I hear you on 100% of all the above points, but with the daily fuel savings and no maintenance costs there has to be a place for the R1S. I figured I'd just go out there and drive and the market would present itself.

My real gig is in marketing, bread and butter being at mid-sized agencies servicing brands you've definitely heard of so a lot of black SUVs carting around celebrities, executives and young account staff moving around things for events and shoots and what not. I just feel like the guy who has the company that services us, if he replaced every single one of his Suburbans and Escalades with R1Ss his clients would actually think it was a step up and he'd save a bunch of money.

I know it's going to sound strange but I actually really enjoy driving for fares. If I can manage to shift incomes somehow completely I'd totally do it and that's what I'm angling for.

Really this all comes down to the used car market, it's hard to develop a business plan around several of these vehicles at 3 year old prices in today's field. Instantly wipes away years worth of margin. Only reason why I'm even musing about using the R1S.

 

[shamoo]

I didn't read every post here, but it appears you're looking at it in the way of "I'll buy an EV to save money" and not realize you just bought an $80K EV. So did you really save money?

How often are you hauling that much people/baggage to the airport? I would argue and say it is cheaper to buy a base model Prius as the "hauler". 50-60mpg, inexpensive vehicle, etc.

Most of my trips (Uber, etc) to the airport with 2-3 people with large snowboard bags and a suitcase or two have been in a Prius. Tight, but fine. Could I have gotten a Tahoe? Sure, but I don't want to pay 3-4x the price.

 

[Bee]

I didn't read every post here, but it appears you're looking at it in the way of "I'll buy an EV to save money" and not realize you just bought an $80K EV. So did you really save money?

If you're buying an $80k EV and spending the same as a $90k Tahoe and saving $65 / day while working, then yes.

 

[SoCalTravels]

As someone who frequently books Uber Black SUVs for business dinners with 4-5 adults, I would be extremely disappointed if an R1S showed up to pick us up. 100% of the time we either get Navigator L or Escalade ESV, which work well for 3rd row space and width.

The Market is NYC where people drive Escalades, not overkill.


I'm in NYC which is essentially if you have 4 wheels, and if Uber will let you drive it and you can maintain the stars, you're good to go.

I hear you on 100% of all the above points, but with the daily fuel savings and no maintenance costs there has to be a place for the R1S. I figured I'd just go out there and drive and the market would present itself.

My real gig is in marketing, bread and butter being at mid-sized agencies servicing brands you've definitely heard of so a lot of black SUVs carting around celebrities, executives and young account staff moving around things for events and shoots and what not. I just feel like the guy who has the company that services us, if he replaced every single one of his Suburbans and Escalades with R1Ss his clients would actually think it was a step up and he'd save a bunch of money.

I know it's going to sound strange but I actually really enjoy driving for fares. If I can manage to shift incomes somehow completely I'd totally do it and that's what I'm angling for.

Really this all comes down to the used car market, it's hard to develop a business plan around several of these vehicles at 3 year old prices in today's field. Instantly wipes away years worth of margin. Only reason why I'm even musing about using the R1S.

 

[Bee]

As someone who frequently books Uber Black SUVs for business dinners with 4-5 adults, I would be extremely disappointed if an R1S showed up to pick us up. 100% of the time we either get Navigator L or Escalade ESV, which work well for 3rd row space and width.

People keep saying this but if you look at the map and you see an Escalade and R1S and choose the R1S isn't that on you?

 

[zipzag]

A three row EV van with one motor is a better and less expensive tool. Rivian is a specialty vehicle that is way overbuilt for the purpose you propose. A paying adult also doesn't want to climb into the tight third row. An Escalade is a considerably bigger vehicle than the R1S.

Solar wouldn't cut costs if you could not charge during the day.

Uber type transport will undoubtedly go electric because of the fuel numbers you show. EV Taxis are being purpose built.

 

[Bee]

A three row EV van with one motor is a better and less expensive tool. Rivian is a specialty vehicle that is way overbuilt for the purpose you propose. A paying adult also doesn't want to climb into the tight third row. An Escalade is a considerably bigger vehicle than the R1S.

If you wanted to not be in that premium tier of cars there are plenty of "3rd row" cars that are cheap to buy

Yes but we're trying to check specific boxes for Uber to reach max fare with minimal costs. The R1S checks all the technical boxes to compete with the Escalade, Suburbans and Navigators of the world. The cost of the vehicle itself almost becomes meaningless and that should become apparent when we're talking about people with $40-90,000 year salaries buying $120,000 cars. In most scenarios they're only holding on to that car for a few years, moving it and then buying a new (used) one because buying/selling is a tremendous part of your margins, so the cost of the vehicle doesn't matter, how much it depreciates in the time you own it is the loss you need to consider.

I can buy a 2016 transit van and fit 10 people with luggage no problem and it's a dirt cheap vehicle, that doesn't make it the most profitable business venture, nor the one people are clicking on their apps.

If only 33% of people are willing to click on the R1S in a market like NYC, as long as you're driving at the right times, it doesn't matter, you're going to get booked. If you're saving $65 / day in fuel costs over 260 working days in a year that's $16,900 raise you just got yourself before you even consider the car will depreciate much better than these other expensive monsters we're talking about.

I fully expect people to not want an R1S over an Escalade in a large chunk of situations, that's not what is up for debate. The debate is whether or not the R1S is going to become the next thing like the M3 was that ride share drivers can make maximum money on.

I'm kind of done repeating the basics over and over again, it's not anyone's fault but this is probably just not the right place to have this conversation.

Solar wouldn't cut costs if you could not charge during the day.

That's true and it's not true. I'm from Long Island and well versed in solar and the costs associated as we have super high adoption with $.22 / kWh electricity rates. I will at the very least have a truck hooked up to my house, even if it's an F150 with the expensive install, because of the savings associated. My driving is local so I can drive that battery like it's a Tesla wall indefinitely since I need far less than 100 miles unless I'm specifically road tripping.

If your electric bill is going to be $500 / mo. all sorts of crazy things pay back super fast.

Uber type transport will undoubtedly go electric because of the fuel numbers you show. EV Taxis are being purpose built.

Yeah I like Canoo for this, but frankly I was kind of suspecting Rivian would go down this route as well and an elongated R1S could be an easy way to do that. Convert the delivery vans to a hauler, also should be simple enough and they could be real players in that space. They probably have too many things going on at once to focus though, going to take a few years for them to put these kinds of things on the market at a minimum.

The whole thing that got me into this is I'm seeing all these people leasing EVs for a single day to ride share drivers. Kona EVs, Niro EVs, Model 3s. Just things that are stupid awful cabs but riders don't mind it and drivers save a fortune. The R1S feels like to me, in NYC at least, the R1S could be the first in that class for airport haulers.

 

[Bee]

PS the gas savings is paying utility rates, solar picture with implied battery capacity below

Let's assume 133 kWh daily usage (this is kind of low, doesn't matter, won't have the capacity):

Ehhh, not gonna happen, I'm getting 9.6kW on my roof so 1/4 of the above is $12,136.25 kWh * $.22 is $2,669.975 / year saved, real solar hours, real power, real storage. Going to have solar anyways, want a BEV truck anyways, the $2,669.97 saved per year will cover the cost of bringing more power into the house and the Pro install / upgrade quickly enough.

All seperate from the $65/ saved so that would make it $19,570 raise you just got yourself by going R1S with a solar arrangement. (again, a lot more if you consider potential depreciation savings)

 

[junkanoo]

I can buy a 2016 transit van and fit 10 people with luggage no problem and it's a dirt cheap vehicle, that doesn't make it the most profitable business venture, nor the one people are clicking on their apps.

A false narrative. A bad idea doesn't make your idea great. Now, instead, purchase a used true five-seater with ample luggage space and your cost of entry becomes so much lower than a new R1S. And a lot lower cost per mile from a total ownership standpoint than the Rivian. You like to concentrate on fuel savings, but what about insurance costs and depreciation of the vehicle that you're going to put a ton of miles on.

If only 33% of people are willing to click on the R1S in a market like NYC, as long as you're driving at the right times, it doesn't matter, you're going to get booked. If you're saving $65 / day in fuel costs over 260 working days in a year that's $16,900 raise you just got yourself before you even consider the car will depreciate much better than these other expensive monsters we're talking about.

But, they're not clicking on a Rivian ... they are only clicking on a class of vehicle/type of vehicle.

Now ... if Uber and Lyft were to create an EV category ... that might change things. A lot of wealthy people in the Tri-State area are already feeling guilty about flying in jets and would welcome a green alternative (even if that green alternative is not really that green).

 

[Bee]

A false narrative. A bad idea doesn't make your idea great. Now, instead, purchase a used true five-seater with ample luggage space and your cost of entry becomes so much lower than a new R1S. And a lot lower cost per mile from a total ownership standpoint than the Rivian. You like to concentrate on fuel savings, but what about insurance costs and depreciation of the vehicle that you're going to put a ton of miles on.

Ok so I'll just tell you how it's supposed to work instead of you projecting whatever.

You buy a used low mileage Escalade ESV off lease, drive it for a few years, sell it before it gets too high mileaged to sell.

Used low mileage Escalade ESVs are hard to find and selling close to new MSRP. If you purhcase that Escalade now, you will lose a ton of money based on the over-inflated used:new prices at the moment. No amount of inflation is going to account for the coming market correction when a "normal" is eventually reached and buying that car, now, is betting a full years income that the correction won't happen before you go to sell.

So you're in a situation where you're going to take a depreciation hit. Now look at the R1S, low volume production for its first years and will retain its value much better than a comparative ICE.

$50 a month more for insurance is offset in the first day of savings so I'm just going to ignore this. You can call it $400 a month more and it's still a negligible impact. Anyone really think an R1S is going to cost $400 a month more to insure over a $120,000 Escalade? No, it won't. It'll be $50.

But, they're not clicking on a Rivian ... they are only clicking on a class of vehicle/type of vehicle.

Now ... if Uber and Lyft were to create an EV category ... that might change things. A lot of wealthy people in the Tri-State area are already feeling guilty about flying in jets and would welcome a green alternative (even if that green alternative is not really that green).

We've been over Uber's categories and listed the cars, you're welcome to go check it out and tell me that the Rivian won't fit in that class of cars, but there are smaller, less seated cars in that class.

Taken with how they classify the model 3, above its fighting class, there's no reason to assume it won't qualify. They want electric vehicles in their fleets.

 

[SoCalTravels]

unless Uber has recently changed their policy and application, this isn’t how things work. You are only allowed to select a category (IE, Black SUV). And my point still stands I would be disappointed and likely file a complaint if an R1S showed up and I booked a Black SUV which is meant to hold up to 6.

People keep saying this but if you look at the map and you see an Escalade and R1S and choose the R1S isn't that on you?

 

[Bee]

unless Uber has recently changed their policy and application, this isn’t how things work. You are only allowed to select a category (IE, Black SUV). And my point still stands I would be disappointed and likely file a complaint if an R1S showed up and I booked a Black SUV which is meant to hold up to 6.

They have not changed, the XL requirement is 7 seats.

Here's are the Black SUV requirements.

Sorry, done with this conversation I'm repeating the same things over and over again and asking people to reference the same things and linking the same things and this is getting circular and tiresome.

The reasons why this works financially is supposed to be the obvious part. People chiming in with the same invalid points saying, "I wouldn't book it" doesn't matter to what's being discussed. If you've sat in an airport parking lot waiting for fares and owned your own vehicle, you have way more authority than me on the subject and I was kind of expecting that person to be among us. They're not, this is a dumb debate now.

Circular. Did I mention it's going around in circles? Repeating itself?

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