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So your alignment is bad? Maybe this is why.

mindstormsguy

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My R1T has been making progressively worse noises from the front end. There’s suspension squeaking and clunking going over ”soft” 20mph residential street speed bumps, there’s creaking when starting from a standstill, and now there’s even a small thud when you transition from accel to decel (similar to differential lash, but I swear it wasn’t there before). I *finally* have a service appointment next week (only after me calling service multiple times to follow-up on why my tickets were seemingly ignored), but I am planning on doing some towing this weekend, so I really wanted to know if there was something about to fall apart. So I looked under my truck today.

Well, I didn’t find any fastener that was outright about to fall off, but I did find that three of the lower A-arm eccentric alignment bolts are apparently not tight enough.

Rivian R1T R1S So your alignment is bad? Maybe this is why. C519DB41-6230-455B-A763-DB9979B77BEF

Rivian R1T R1S So your alignment is bad? Maybe this is why. 644A81C9-2695-448B-85EE-51DAD4AE1856

Rivian R1T R1S So your alignment is bad? Maybe this is why. B29B0023-D5F0-4CBD-A2D6-172616204A0B


Note that none of the green torque marks are aligned anymore on these fasteners, meaning that my alignment has almost certainly shifted.

I can only think of two explanations for this, and neither is really that great:
1) the folks responsible for setting the torque wrenches in the factory are not doing their job right, and none of the torque wrenches are properly calibrated, or
2) the engineers who spec’d the fastener tightening torque don’t know how to properly calculate clamping loads, and so the fastener is tightened to spec, but that’s not enough to keep the joint from slipping. Maybe the fastener is tightened as much as the fastener type allows, but the fastener is underspec’d for the loads it sees.

Or maybe I just got a truck assembled on a Friday afternoon (or Monday morning)? I’m very curious to see if others are seeing the same slipping on their alignment bolts. When I get my truck back from service I’m definitely going to be re-marking the fasteners to see if they start slipping again.

Oh, and I didn’t figure out where the noise is coming from. I half-expect that the motor mounts are also slipping, but I couldn’t easily see to inspect, and I don’t want to take anything apart and take away the opportunity for Rivian to learn that none of their fasteners are staying put.
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odingrey

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So, I have all the things you're describing and picked my truck up from service for those a few days ago.

They did not fix the problem, but mentioned it is a known issue that they don't yet have a fix for. The explanation was that they had a bolt set to a certain torque spec during the design that turned out to be problematic. The temporary fix was to over torque it, but that causes the suspension squeaking and thunking noise. They are working on a more permanent fix that would allow them to set that bolt back down to the original torque.

I'll be interested to here if you also get the same explanation.
 

Mark_AZR1T

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Hmmmmmm....this is troubling....
 

crashmtb

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(comment about Regina pavement goes here)


Presumably there’s no serrated/lock nut on the other side of those bolts.?
Maybe Rivian should google “nord-lock“
 

Donald Stanfield

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It seems like there are already a few different solutions for this problem. Lock nuts, castle nuts with captive pins, locktite. You'd think they would try something like that.
 

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mindstormsguy

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(comment about Regina pavement goes here)


Presumably there’s no serrated/lock nut on the other side of those bolts.?
Maybe Rivian should google “nord-lock“
It started before that trip. 😅

It seems like there are already a few different solutions for this problem. Lock nuts, castle nuts with captive pins, locktite. You'd think they would try something like that.
I don’t think that’s the issue. The bolts aren’t backing out, they’re slipping (at least from what I can tell). When you engineer a bolted joint, you don’t set the torque to prevent loosening, you set the torque to provide the correct clamping force. The clamping force is selected to prevent the things that you’re bolting together from sliding against each other under load.

@odengrey that’s unfortunate. If my truck has the tighter torque (to explain the creaking), then it’s even less reassuring that the bolts are still shifting.

I will also say that my friends R1, and the R1 I test drove both had non-silent front suspension, but they didn’t bang like mine does.
 

pticknerco

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Or......you could have this. How about the nut that holds the upper ball joint on wasn't tightened and it comes off, leaving you incredibly close to a spectacular crash? Very, very, scary.

My right front suspension continually slowly bled off, so it went in for service for replacement. Within a few miles after it's return, on making a turn the whole front end (and steering wheel) lurched to the side for a second, and then straightened back out. Fortunately I've worked in the 4x4 world enough to know something was seriously, and dangerously wrong. My stomach turned when I saw how close the ball joint was to pulling all the way out. I had my kid with me and had been cruising at 70 just minutes before. It could have been very bad. That's what holds the front wheel vertical and the front end together. I've seen them fail in offroad racing, and it isn't pretty, but this was simply a lack of quality control in service.

They did take care of me (loaner,expedited service), but swore up and down that the tech had torqued everything to the proper specs, which obviously wasn't true.

Rivian R1T R1S So your alignment is bad? Maybe this is why. IMG_0006
 

Jayhox

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Or......you could have this. How about the nut that holds the upper ball joint on wasn't tightened and it comes off, leaving you incredibly close to a spectacular crash? Very, very, scary.

My right front suspension continually slowly bled off, so it went in for service for replacement. Within a few miles after it's return, on making a turn the whole front end (and steering wheel) lurched to the side for a second, and then straightened back out. Fortunately I've worked in the 4x4 world enough to know something was seriously, and dangerously wrong. My stomach turned when I saw how close the ball joint was to pulling all the way out. I had my kid with me and had been cruising at 70 just minutes before. It could have been very bad. That's what holds the front wheel vertical and the front end together. I've seen them fail in offroad racing, and it isn't pretty, but this was simply a lack of quality control in service.

They did take care of me (loaner,expedited service), but swore up and down that the tech had torqued everything to the proper specs, which obviously wasn't true.

IMG_0006.jpg
Wow, that's scary. Thank goodness you recognized a major issue relatively quickly.
 

mini2nut

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Luckily you are mechanically inclined and caught this. The average Joe would have never got down on their knees to see if anything looked abnormal.
 
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crashmtb

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It started before that trip. 😅



I don’t think that’s the issue. The bolts aren’t backing out, they’re slipping (at least from what I can tell). When you engineer a bolted joint, you don’t set the torque to prevent loosening, you set the torque to provide the correct clamping force. The clamping force is selected to prevent the things that you’re bolting together from sliding against each other under load.

@odengrey that’s unfortunate. If my truck has the tighter torque (to explain the creaking), then it’s even less reassuring that the bolts are still shifting.

I will also say that my friends R1, and the R1 I test drove both had non-silent front suspension, but they didn’t bang like mine does.
I mean, if you don’t have enough clamping force…you also probably have loosening 🫠
On lots of cars, it’s not uncommon for camber bolts to slip in track applications, or when wider/stickier tires are used otherwise, so people just torque them to the point of becoming TTY fasteners. Juuust like Rivian is doing apparently. 😂


Lucky you are mechanically inclined and caught this. The average owner would have never got down on their knees to see if anything looked abnormal.
“It started making a weird noise, but it went away when I turned the stereo up.“
 

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AxelR

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Are these early deliveries?
Have things improved over time? This is dangerous.
 

Attesan997

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Are these early deliveries?
Have things improved over time? This is dangerous.
I'm in the 8XXX VIN range and have what'd I'd consider a noisy a hell suspension. My service appointment is a month away and I don't really intend to do any long distance travel until I can get to service. I'm not new to early adopter woes but for a company pushing a premium product I'd think they'd be able to torque bolts correctly so that they stay put, its not exactly a new thing.
 

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I mean, if you don’t have enough clamping force…you also probably have loosening 🫠
On lots of cars, it’s not uncommon for camber bolts to slip in track applications, or when wider/stickier tires are used otherwise, so people just torque them to the point of becoming TTY fasteners. Juuust like Rivian is doing apparently. 😂



“It started making a weird noise, but it went away when I turned the stereo up.“
My first question was whether they were TTY, TTA or what? I'd want to know that before Rivian serviced my truck and just stuck the same TTY bolts back in instead of replacing.
 

FirstStateR1T

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I have the faint low speed creek on the front DS corner, I will have to give this a look now...
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