Latest EV tax credit status (as of 12/30/22) - summary by NYT

[astonius]

No. In an audit YOU have the burden of proof. Not the IRS. How would YOU prove it was bought to be kept? Maybe you can show a job loss or maybe you spent $1k on customizing the vehicle and then decided the ride hurt your back and you’ve got a doctors bill.

That is antithetical to the fifth amendment.

But let me indulge your argument. You can simply say “I was unable to test drive the vehicle before purchase. After purchase I found it was not suitable for my lifestyle.”

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[Bobthebuilder352]

That is antithetical to the fifth amendment.

But let me indulge your argument. You can simply say “I was unable to test drive the vehicle before purchase. After purchase I found it was not suitable for my lifestyle.”

Lol. If you’re citing the 5th amendment you have no clue. Good luck buddy. I hope no one else takes your advice.

 

[astonius]

Lol. If you’re citing the 5th amendment you have no clue. Good luck buddy. I hope no one else takes your advice.

Good luck on what? I'm not the one in this predicament.

 

[Autolycus]

That is antithetical to the fifth amendment.

Huh? The burden shift that occurs when the IRS has evidence of possible shenanigans on a tax return is not even remotely antithetical to the fifth amendment. I honestly don’t even know which clause of that amendment you could possibly be thinking is applicable to that situation.

 

[astonius]

Huh? The burden shift that occurs when the IRS has evidence of possible shenanigans on a tax return is not even remotely antithetical to the fifth amendment. I honestly don’t even know which clause of that amendment you could possibly be thinking is applicable to that situation.

You have to have evidence of shenanigans, which is exactly my point. The fact there's zero guidance provided on time of ownership means the IRS cannot use time of ownership as proof of intent.

I'm not saying it's a battle I'd want to fight.

 

[Yossarian]

I have my guide looking into this portion, seems Rivian has to report the sale with buyers name and SS at time of purchase but they are not collecting that information in the 8 step process. I’ll let you know what they say as with pre-March pricing my R1S comes in at 77k.

The sale qualifies only if:

• You buy the vehicle new
• The seller reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS.
  • Sellers are required to report your name and taxpayer identification number to the IRS for you to be eligible to claim the credit.

Yes please let us know what happens. Hopefully, Rivian is planning to handle the second bullet particularly since Rivian is on the list of car makers who's vehicles otherwise qualify for the credit. While many of those holding reservations have PBA's and so <may> qualify under the pre-Aug 2022 rules, the IRS may have other ideas.

 

[dleepnw]

ultimately the PBA is irrelevant for those of us taking delivery in 2023. that could possibly extend through March 2023 according to the NYT article.

so basically any of us taking delivery of a Rivian past March 2023 need to keep the vehicle MSRP below $80,000 and make less than the income caps stated. rest of the stuff Rivian vehicles meet the qualifications, is that right?

damn. with pre-3/1 pricing on an R1S i want the underbody shield, canyon red and 20' wheels but looks like im going to have to drop one. logical choice is the wheels, since thats the thing that's easiest to change aftermarket.

 

[Jac]

ultimately the PBA is irrelevant for those of us taking delivery in 2023. that could possibly extend through March 2023 according to the NYT article.

so basically any of us taking delivery of a Rivian past March 2023 need to keep the vehicle MSRP below $80,000 and make less than the income caps stated. rest of the stuff Rivian vehicles meet the qualifications, is that right?

damn. with pre-3/1 pricing on an R1S i want the underbody shield, canyon red and 20' wheels but looks like im going to have to drop one. logical choice is the wheels, since thats the thing that's easiest to change aftermarket.

1. I’m not giving up on the binding purchase agreement yet. Waiting for something definitive.
2. I am not pulling anything off my R1S configuration until we hear definitively whether Rivian qualifies under the new EV tax credit law’s battery sourcing provision. If not, why bother squeaking under $80,000 if Rivians end up not qualifying for the credit?

YMMV.

 

[Autolycus]

ultimately the PBA is irrelevant for those of us taking delivery in 2023. that could possibly extend through March 2023 according to the NYT article.

so basically any of us taking delivery of a Rivian past March 2023 need to keep the vehicle MSRP below $80,000 and make less than the income caps stated. rest of the stuff Rivian vehicles meet the qualifications, is that right?

damn. with pre-3/1 pricing on an R1S i want the underbody shield, canyon red and 20' wheels but looks like im going to have to drop one. logical choice is the wheels, since thats the thing that's easiest to change aftermarket.

Yep. R1S buyers can pick 2 options, unless we want dark wheels, which would limit us to just 1 option.

I agree that wheels are the easiest choice to drop. My current plan is FG and FE interior. My config has the AT wheels, but I’ll drop those when it comes time to actually lock in my configuration. I’ve got until Jul-Sept, unfortunately, so the battery rules might be a problem no matter what.

 

[markp]

1. I’m not giving up on the binding purchase agreement yet. Waiting for something definitive.
2. I am not pulling anything off my R1S configuration until we hear definitively whether Rivian qualifies under the new EV tax credit law’s battery sourcing provision. If not, why bother squeaking under $80,000 if Rivians end up not qualifying for the credit?

YMMV.

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere, but the FAQ on the IRS website seems to seriously contradict the hope that having a binding agreement and taking taking delivery in 2023 will qualify for the rebate:

Purchase date vs. delivery date
If you entered a written binding contract to buy a vehicle before August 16, 2022, but took possession on or after August 16, 2022, and before January 1, 2023, you may claim the credit based on the prior rules and disregard the assembly requirement.

(https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-electric-vehicles-purchased-in-2022-or-before)

This is a big bummer for me. I was really hoping the PBA would keep the rebate alive for 2023 deliveries. Perhaps this IRS statement is only referencing the new assembly requirement and not stating generally that the last date to take possession and apply the old rules is 12/31/22. I'll keep my hope alive.

 

[Jac]

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere, but the FAQ on the IRS website seems to seriously contradict the hope that having a binding agreement and taking taking delivery in 2023 will qualify for the rebate:

Purchase date vs. delivery date
If you entered a written binding contract to buy a vehicle before August 16, 2022, but took possession on or after August 16, 2022, and before January 1, 2023, you may claim the credit based on the prior rules and disregard the assembly requirement.

(https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-electric-vehicles-purchased-in-2022-or-before)

This is a big bummer for me. I was really hoping the PBA would keep the rebate alive for 2023 deliveries. Perhaps this IRS statement is only referencing the new assembly requirement and not stating generally that the last date to take possession and apply the old rules is 12/31/22. I'll keep my hope alive.

Unfortunately, I think you are right that our signed BPAs aren’t going to fly for 2023 deliveries. We knew it was questionable when we signed them.

For folks who can somehow slip under the new income and MSRP caps, the remaining unanswered question is whether Rivian batteries qualify for the tax credit. We should find out s00n.

 

[dleepnw]

Unfortunately, I think you are right that our signed BPAs aren’t going to fly for 2023 deliveries. We knew it was questionable when we signed them.

For folks who can somehow slip under the new income and MSRP caps, the remaining unanswered question is whether Rivian batteries qualify for the tax credit. We should find out s00n.

yeah, it was basically a good faith gesture by Rivian without clear guarantees because, well, its the government.

 

[jamiehobbes]

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-electric-vehicles-purchased-in-2022-or-before

Purchase date vs. delivery date
If you entered a written binding contract to buy a vehicle before August 16, 2022, but took possession on or after August 16, 2022, and before January 1, 2023, you may claim the credit based on the prior rules and disregard the assembly requirement.

If you purchased a vehicle between August 16, 2022 and December 31, 2022 but don't take delivery of the vehicle until 2023, see Credit for New Clean Vehicles Purchased in 2023 and After.


This link does not give actual guidance for those who purchased before aug 16 but did not deliver before Jan 1 2023.

 

[Yossarian]

My understanding is that if (and that's a big IF) the IRS determines that the Rivian PBA qualifies as a binding agreement, the year of delivery won't matter assuming the document was executed prior to the IRA becoming law in August. So even if delivery is 2024, for tax purposes, the delivery year is 2022 and the earlier IRS rules for the tax credit will govern. I'd also assume that an amended return for that year will be required.

There's a lot that's not clear and clarification is supposed be forthcoming in the first quarter of the new year. I suspect that even if the PBA is considered binding, there will still be many who will not get the break. One example would be those who have an R1T Max configured and called out on their PBA. That model will not be made, so can't be delivered, and I would think changing your config invalidates the existing PBA.

All of that said, I'm far from being an expert in these matters, and you should seek out a competent tax attorney or a CPA with a taxation background for a definitive answer.

 

[astonius]

My understanding is that if (and that's a big IF) the IRS determines that the Rivian PBA qualifies as a binding agreement, the year of delivery won't matter assuming the document was executed prior to the IRA becoming law in August. So even if delivery is 2024, for tax purposes, the delivery year is 2022 and the earlier IRS rules for the tax credit will govern. I'd also assume that an amended return for that year will be required.

There's a lot that's not clear and clarification is supposed be forthcoming in the first quarter of the new year. I suspect that even if the PBA is considered binding, there will still be many who will not get the break. One example would be those who have an R1T Max configured and called out on their PBA. That model will not be made, so can't be delivered, and I would think changing your config invalidates the existing PBA.

All of that said, I'm far from being an expert in these matters, and you should seek out a competent tax attorney or a CPA with a taxation background for a definitive answer.

The key component here is the new upper bound posted on the IRS website.

“If you entered a written binding contract to buy a vehicle before August 16, 2022, but took possession on or after August 16, 2022, and before January 1, 2023, you may claim the credit based on the prior rules and disregard the assembly requirement.”

If that’s accurate we’re SOL.

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