GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[Sully151]

You are pretty much wrong on everything you stated here.

Then, please explain.
Ford and GM aren’t adopting NACS
They won’t pay more for charging than a Tesla?
Tesla’s don’t use adapters to charge at CCS stations?
If Rivian decides to comply and go with the Tesla model, they won’t be able to use adapters or charge at both NACS and CCS chargers (like teslas already have the ability to do)?

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[Christopher]

I don't want NACS until this is in the public domain and a single company (Tesla) doesn't have control over which OEMs use this, and how the standard works. It has to be an open standard managed by a consortium.

Imagine all these automotive manufacturers switch to NACS, competition in charging networks end, Tesla has monopoly on charging infrastructure, then utilize that monopoly to jack of charging prices. This will be the OPEC of DCFC, or the Apple Lightning connector of USB cables

 

[izgoy]

Not all lightning accessories are MFi certified. The better ones are, but many are not.

Those that aren’t certified aren’t authorized by Apple to be used with Apple devices.

 

[izgoy]

I don't want NACS until this is in the public domain and a single company (Tesla) doesn't have control over which OEMs use this, and how the standard works. It has to be an open standard managed by a consortium.

Imagine all these automotive manufacturers switch to NACS, competition in charging networks end, Tesla has monopoly on charging infrastructure, then utilize that monopoly to jack of charging prices. This will be the OPEC of DCFC

Do you think Ford and GM are idiots?

 

[Autolycus]

And neither does Tesla with the NACS. Tesla doesn’t control who can use this connector. It opened the specification up for anyone to use.

We've seen a press release saying they will submit it to a standards body. Doesn't say which one. Doesn't say they'll relinquish IP rights including necessary patents and trademarks. For now, calling it a standard is no different than Elon saying a Tesla will drive coast to coast without a single driver intervention. It's all press release "promises" without tangible support.

You can’t be serious. No one is making anyone do anything.

Dis you know that Lightning accessories must be certified by Apple? Have you heard of MFi? No one makes anyone use Apple iPhones, but if you do, you have to comply with Apple’s requirements to plug something into an Apple iPhone.

You want to plug your EV in a Tesla supercharger, comply with the way you are required to park so as not to block two charging stalls. Hence, you have to have a port in the proper location on your vehicle. Otherwise, drive to an EA charging

At no point in time has Apple claimed that Lightning is an open standard. Quite the opposite, actually. It is NOT an open standard. It is very intentionally a walled garden.

 

[scottf200]

Imagine all these automotive manufacturers switch to NACS, competition in charging networks end,

EVgo or EA can add a NACS and change whatever they want per kWh...
... they they can complete with charging a Ford, GM, or Tesla at a Tesla SuperCharger

 

[Autolycus]

Do you think Ford and GM are idiots?

Honestly, I mostly do. They make all kinds of terrible decisions. I'm certainly not going to give either one of them the benefit of the doubt here. It would not surprise me in the slightest if they made a massive long-term blunder that could destroy their companies in the name of some short-term boost.

 

[Christopher]

Do you think Ford and GM are idiots?

Yes! There's plenty of executives in this world that would fall under that definition.

 

[scottf200]

Yes! There's plenty of executives in this world that would fall under that definition.

Honestly, I mostly do. They make all kinds of terrible decisions. I'm certainly not going to give either one of them the benefit of the doubt here. It would not surprise me in the slightest if they made a massive long-term blunder that could destroy their companies in the name of some short-term boost.

Your are being silly. Farley is quoted as saying the talks/deal took two years. How many Ford folks (lawyers, engineers, etc) would have been involved going over every detail?

 

[Zoidz]

There are people who fit this mold - they live in an area and never have to leave it. Big cities have all the amenities they need. But in places like the midwest or even Florida - if you want to see a NBA game you gotta drive across the state. It depends on the user, right?

• Some people live where there are no overnight charging options (apartments, condos - even in rural places. Certainly cities have these problems - even cities like Philly where you have to parallel park and you don’t have a driveway). These people use DCFC like ICE drivers use gas stations
• People who tow
• People who drive more than 300 miles round trip
• People who live in northern climates and deal with range loss due to temps

My personal usage over 12 months is closer to 26% Supercharging

and Rental Cars.

 

[Grabs10]

Or, if Elon decides, he can basically put Rivian out of business. Seems like a problem to me.
Going to be an interesting 12 months or so as this battle rages on. Bet EA and EVGo are gonna be pretty cautious in their investments until the dust settles here.

All this IRA money given to these companies to install CCS will be for naught. They will let the network go and it will be broken down and unrepaired while being a money draining expenditure. Since Tesla’s connector is open source and likely 90% or greater of the EVs will use that connector our government needs to switch its funding to be exclusively for the NACS connector to give these charging companies a chance to have a solvent Charging network. The NACS connector is an open source connector that any charging company could adopt without issue. CCS connector is now a wooden wagon wheel

 

[Autolycus]

EVgo or EA can add a NACS and change whatever they want per kWh...
... they they can complete with charging a Ford, GM, or Tesla at a Tesla SuperCharger

Please show me the actual grant of IP rights that Tesla has given to literally anyone. I don't want a press release offering to grant rights with ant print saying there are conditions. I want to see a binding document.

Your are being silly. Farley is quoted as saying the talks/deal took two years. How many Ford folks (lawyers, engineers, etc) would have been involved going over every detail?

You're being incredibly charitable here. Business make well-research and well-lawyered decisions that are ultimately bad decisions, ALL THE TIME. It happens for lots of different reasons.

For example: Coca-Cola spent years developing New Coke. Invested millions in testing, market research, new IP like trademarks, and in advertising and distribution of the new product. It was an absolute disaster. That's the singular dominant soda business that was consistently well-run by some of the best executives in the world. They screwed up. All the diligence in the world couldn't stop the screwup.

 

[izgoy]

For now, calling it a standard is no different than Elon saying a Tesla will drive coast to coast without a single driver intervention.

Did I call it a standard?

 

[DuoRivians]

Honestly, I mostly do. They make all kinds of terrible decisions. I'm certainly not going to give either one of them the benefit of the doubt here. It would not surprise me in the slightest if they made a massive long-term blunder that could destroy their companies in the name of some short-term boost.

I think both Ford and GM are short term profit maximizers. GM had one of the first EVs, way back when, but short term profits compelled them to shelf that EV.

It’s unfortunate for the overall EV consumer that neither Ford nor GM are revealing the fine print details of their arrangements. I can almost guarantee that it’s not done out of the goodness of Tesla’s heart

 

[izgoy]

Yes! There's plenty of executives in this world that would fall under that definition.

Then, you should have no problem replacing one of them. Give it a try.

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