Standard Dual Motor does not get new Gauge View

[R1Tom]

I would like to know where exactly you see that a quad with similar package costs $30k more than a dual. It’s $8k difference.

I must be missing something too. I don't see anyway it can be $30k. I see $8k.

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[Donald Stanfield]

Exactly, the difference paid is for power train differences. It was never explicit that similar trims across different power trains would be treated so differently. Having more modes for quads makes sense from a hardware perspective (you can do more precise maneuvering with a quad) but to then treat the software different outside of hardware differences seems disingenuous.

Again, different software was already given to you. You do not have sport mode or many of the off-road modes. You knew that your software going in was going to be different. What seems disingenuous to me is expecting you get the same software stack as someone willing to pay thirty thousand dollars more than you did for the same basic truck shell.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

That's absolutely not true. The F150 specifically can be spec'd with different motors on most trims. And actually, the state of Oregon defines the F150 Lightning Base, XLT, and Lariat to be identical (just with separate options).

That's the key thing; what options may be added to the vehicle. Those options for Rivian were clearly defined; different motor, different selection of drive modes, and some minor badging differences. That's it.

No where does Rivian suggest that additional features could be omitted in OTA updates, (and here's the kicker) even in the promotional material for THIS OTA update.

No one was promised these updates. None of these features were promised to anyone. Therefore Rivian can allocate them however they'd like. If they give more features to the quad to differentiate it from the base dual then that is their choice. If they decide to distribute them evenly across all platforms they could do that as well.

Also it absolutely is true that when you go above certain trim levels you can no longer get the base power train options and certain features are locked into certain levels of truck. Acting like an adventure quad and an adventure dual are the same truck when the name is different is disingenuous at best. It's not an adventure, it's an adventure quad or an adventure dual or an adventure dual performance. Those are three separate trim levels based right in the three different names.

 

[GHuff]

IF this is true, this is BS by RIvian. Basic software improvements shouldn't be paywalled. That was never suggested. Something as drastic as that should be explicitly known to the customer up front.
Rivian is making things up on the fly and it is not okay.
This is exactly why Rivian needs to provide upfront clarity about everything. They were radio silent on the Membership, canned that, and we still have no idea what or how much all of these a-la-carte options are going to be or cost.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I would like to know where exactly you see that a quad with similar package costs $30k more than a dual. It’s $8k difference.

The 30K comes from the base model dual and quads configured like my truck. Apparently they are charging that 8K just for the quad so you're right you could get a stripped quad for 8K more. Even more reason for them to differentiate them with software to motivate people to spend the extra money.

 

[MColbert]

No one was promised these updates. None of these features were promised to anyone. Therefore Rivian can allocate them however they'd like. If they give more features to the quad to differentiate it from the base dual then that is their choice. If they decide to distribute them evenly across all platforms they could do that as well.

Also it absolutely is true that when you go above certain trim levels you can no longer get the base power train options and certain features are locked into certain levels of truck. Acting like an adventure quad and an adventure dual are the same truck when the name is different is disingenuous at best. It's not an adventure, it's an adventure quad or an adventure dual or an adventure dual performance. Those are three separate trim levels based right in the three different names.

Again, the quad is not $30k more than the similarly appointed dual. It’s an $8k difference. Your stance really seems more about how your truck with the quad is better than the dual than actual trim level differences. They are the same trim levels, Adventure is the trim level, the only difference is the motor setup. Software differences based on hardware (motors) makes sense because of different capabilities. There’s nothing that makes sense about having gauges vs no gauges. You paid for the motors, not the software.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

IF this is true, this is BS by RIvian. Basic software improvements shouldn't be paywalled. That was never suggested. Something as drastic as that should be explicitly known to the customer up front.
Rivian is making things up on the fly and it is not okay.
This is exactly why Rivian needs to provide upfront clarity about everything. They were radio silent on the Membership, canned that, and we still have no idea what or how much all of these a-la-carte options are going to be or cost.

First off in Rivian's IPO they talked about software as a service and being able to monetize it so this has been in the plan for years. As you mentioned the membership was an idea floated to do that, and getting different software levels for different trims looks to be another. I agree they need to figure out a plan but none of the software in question was promised with ANYONE's truck.

It's not like they locked software that already existed for everyone, they just didn't give ADDITIONAL software to some. Those are different things IMO. No one was promised these updates and as such no one is entitled to them. If Rivian wants to distribute them based on power train levels as a bonus for the more expensive vehicles I don't see how anyone has a right to complain about it. They aren't locking anything that anyone was promised when they bought the truck.

 

[MColbert]

The 30K comes from the base model dual and quads configured like my truck. Apparently they are charging that 8K just for the quad so you're right you could get a stripped quad for 8K more. Even more reason for them to differentiate them with software to motivate people to spend the extra money.

You can spec out a standard dual all the same ways you can spec out the quad, outside of the extra 2 motors. The trim is level is the same.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Again, the quad is not $30k more than the similarly appointed dual. It’s an $8k difference. Your stance really seems more about how your truck with the quad is better than the dual than actual trim level differences. They are the same trim levels, Adventure is the trim level, the only difference is the motor setup. Software differences based on hardware (motors) makes sense because of different capabilities. There’s nothing that makes sense about having gauges vs no gauges. You paid for the motors, not the software.

I paid for whatever Rivian says I paid for. Show me in your reservation paperwork where you were promised these software updates. You can't, because no one was promised these updates. That means Rivian is giving EXTRA features, and as such they can distribute these extras how they see fit. They didn't lock down anything promised to you when you purchased the vehicle and if they want to build value by differentiating the software they absolutely can do so.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

You can spec out a standard dual all the same ways you can spec out the quad, outside of the extra 2 motors. The trim is level is the same.

No it's not the same. The base dual is a DUAL adventure and the base quad is a QUAD adventure. Those are DIFFERENT labels. Rivian can make those differences whatever they want so long as they do it by ADDING features not taking away things. You'd have a right to be angry if Rivian locked features you got when buying the truck based on your TRIM level of dual adventure. They didn't do that though.

 

[MColbert]

First off in Rivian's IPO they talked about software as a service and being able to monetize it so this has been in the plan for years. As you mentioned the membership was an idea floated to do that, and getting different software levels for different trims looks to be another. I agree they need to figure out a plan but none of the software in question was promised with ANYONE's truck.

It's not like they locked software that already existed for everyone, they just didn't give ADDITIONAL software to some. Those are different things IMO. No one was promised these updates and as such no one is entitled to them. If Rivian wants to distribute them based on power train levels as a bonus for the more expensive vehicles I don't see how anyone has a right to complain about it. They aren't locking anything that anyone was promised when they bought the truck.

Yes they did explicitly say everyone was getting the new drive modes app WITH gauges. It’s right there in the press release. Let me put it here for you to see:

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Yes they did explicitly say everyone was getting the new drive modes app WITH gauges. It’s right there in the press release. Let me put it here for you to see:

You're right, I stand corrected. Based on that according to Rivian you were promised the gauges. Maybe it's just a glitch as others have stated then because it appears Rivian intended on everyone getting them from that press release.

 

[godfodder0901]

And they've already differentiated power trains. So why would you think they wouldnt also offer different software based on which power train you have? Especially since all trucks do not have all modes. We know that to be true, with base dual having less modes. Why is it a leap to think other software might be restricted too?

I think, from my perspective at least, the difference is that the software differences are directly (and clearly) tied to packages; Standard doesn't get Sport mode, Performance Dual doesn't get all of the modes a Quad gets, etc... The gauge view isn't really logically dependent on a specific package in my opinion.

Additionally, as @MColbert pointed out, Rivian did say that everyone would get the new drive mode app and gauge view. I land squarely in the camp that this must be a bug.

 

[MColbert]

No it's not the same. The base dual is a DUAL adventure and the base quad is a QUAD adventure. Those are DIFFERENT labels. Rivian can make those differences whatever they want so long as they do it by ADDING features not taking away things. You'd have a right to be angry if Rivian locked features you got when buying the truck based on your TRIM level of dual adventure. They didn't do that though.

You're right, I stand corrected. Based on that according to Rivian you were promised the gauges. Maybe it's just a glitch as others have stated then because it appears Rivian intended on everyone getting them from that press release.

I contacted customer service today and got the pre produced answer that it was for the quad motors only. They created a service ticket for me and I uploaded an image of the release. It doesn’t seem to be a bug according to Rivian.

Had they been transparent in the release that the gauges were only for the quads, I would have been annoyed but not upset. By advertising them as being for everyone, it seems like either a willful omission or a last minute decision to limit who gets them. Either way, its off in my opinion.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I think, from my perspective at least, the difference is that the software differences are directly (and clearly) tied to packages; Standard doesn't get Sport mode, Performance Dual doesn't get all of the modes a Quad gets, etc... The gauge view isn't really logically dependent on a specific package in my opinion.

Additionally, as @MColbert pointed out, Rivian did say that everyone would get the new drive mode app and gauge view. I land squarely in the camp that this must be a bug.

Read my last response.

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