Max Pack vs Large Pack range test (by Out of Spec)

[Golfer04]

TLDW;
It was cold out, expect around 20~ more miles during the summer.
50° outside temp when starting. Around low 40°s finishing driving portion of the test.
70 MPH Freeway Test
Stock 21" wheels, stock 48 cold psi air pressure.
Battery Capacity test was obtained by sitting at the charger blasting the heat after hitting 0% charge.
Ran in all purpose low suspension height (no conserve mode on dual motor).
Climate set at 70° auto.

Large Pack, Dual Motor:
308.3 Miles
128.2 KWH Used
2.41 Mi/KWH
Capacity of large pack 132.1 KWH
3.3 KWH Buffer below zero left.

Max Pack, Dual Motor Performance:
345.5 Miles
141 KWH Used
2.38 Mi/KWH
Capacity of Max Pack 143.3 KWH
2.3 KWH Buffer below zero left.

Both got pretty good efficiency at 70mph on cold weather. My quad with Michelin 20s won't get 2.0 mi/kwh in that outside temp (in conserve).

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[hroussel]

Time to switch my order from max to large pack.

Would be interesting if someone did a poll to see how many people are willing to take max over large pack after seeing this result.

 

[DuoRivians]

Time to switch my order from max to large pack.

Would be interesting if someone did a poll to see how many people are willing to take max over large pack after seeing this result.

I need to see charging curve, specifically the first 30 minutes of charging at a low state of charge.

If max pack gets meaningfully more kwh than large pack, that would be valuable to me, as I don’t want to spend more than 30 minutes at a time charging.

 

[zefram47]

I need to see charging curve, specifically the first 30 minutes of charging at a low state of charge.

If max pack gets meaningfully more kwh than large pack, that would be valuable to me, as I don’t want to spend more than 30 minutes at a time charging.

Currently in the middle of a road trip from Denver to Chicago...return trip next week. I found that 15-20 min of charging didn't bother me at all, but the extra 10-15 min to get 30-35 min of charging up to 70 or 80% for a longer stint was unpleasant. Add in having to wait for chargers to open up at two locations yesterday and it made for an unpleasant day. Since the curve we've seen thus far for max pack doesn't appear to be any better, you'd actually be talking slightly longer charging times to reach the same SoC, but similar times if only looking at kWh added.

 

[DuoRivians]

Currently in the middle of a road trip from Denver to Chicago...return trip next week. I found that 15-20 min of charging didn't bother me at all, but the extra 10-15 min to get 30-35 min of charging up to 70 or 80% for a longer stint was unpleasant. Add in having to wait for chargers to open up at two locations yesterday and it made for an unpleasant day. Since the curve we've seen thus far for max pack doesn't appear to be any better, you'd actually be talking slightly longer charging times to reach the same SoC, but similar times if only looking at kWh added.

I don't really care about the *percent* soc level. Specifically, I care primarily about the total kwh received when the battery is low, eg 50 miles of range left.

 

[hroussel]

I need to see charging curve, specifically the first 30 minutes of charging at a low state of charge.

If max pack gets meaningfully more kwh than large pack, that would be valuable to me, as I don’t want to spend more than 30 minutes at a time charging.

If you check the 10% challenge by OutOfSpec on the same two R1T as in the test above you'll see the curve, for 15 mins, is essentially the same. No significant difference. In fact the Max pack received slightly less kwh in those 15 mins.

 

[Eric9610]

I don't really care about the *percent* soc level. Specifically, I care primarily about the total kwh received when the battery is low, eg 50 miles of range left.

The OOS videos covered this and actually the large pack performs slightly better adding more KWh in same time... The max pack seems to have slightly faster to start but slows much earlier than the large pack allowing the large pack to outperform the max.

 

[Supratachophobia]

I don't really care about the *percent* soc level. Specifically, I care primarily about the total kwh received when the battery is low, eg 50 miles of range left.

Maybe you are clarifying, but I thought you cared more about the miles on the dash last time we discussed this? Because now that we know the efficiency between large and max is equal in this video, there's just no way the extra 11kw equals 50 more miles.

i too would love for it to turn out the max has a better curve, but I just can't see how that's the case with a more energy dense cell.

#deletethelargepack

 

[RivianDad2]

Time to switch my order from max to large pack.

Would be interesting if someone did a poll to see how many people are willing to take max over large pack after seeing this result.

This is about what I assumed the difference would be and still ultimately went with the max. My reasons were the following: 1. Over time, as the battery degrades, I’ll still be happy getting 300+ miles out of the max, but would be cutting it too close getting 270 out of the large, 2. If I drive 75-80mph, the large might struggle on a 250-260 mile round trip, 3. Pushing the limits of the battery and supercharging degrades the battery faster, so pushing a large battery would create the problems I’m concerned about whereas the max is less likely to degrade over time in my use case, 4. $10k isn’t really $10k when I use the car for work and can write-off a significant portion of the cost in year 1.

 

[DuoRivians]

If you check the 10% challenge by OutOfSpec on the same two R1T as in the test above you'll see the curve, for 15 mins, is essentially the same. No significant difference. In fact the Max pack received slightly less kwh in those 15 mins.

15 min is not enough time to see at which point the batteries start to charge slower. 30 minute test is more important to see curve

 

[DuoRivians]

The OOS videos covered this and actually the large pack performs slightly better adding more KWh in same time... The max pack seems to have slightly faster to start but slows much earlier than the large pack allowing the large pack to outperform the max.

15 min isn’t enough charging time. Both could feasibly pull at a near top kw rate during that time. The latter half of 30 minutes would show which starts to slow down in kw speed first and by how much.

 

[AllInev]

15 min isn’t enough charging time. Both could feasibly pull at a near top kw rate during that time. The latter half of 30 minutes would show which starts to slow down in kw speed first and by how much.

Agree. It's a mistake by OOS (@OutofSpecKyle) to choose only 15 minutes of charging for their "10% challenge". I hope someday a 15 minute DC will be meaningful and realistic, but it's not currently.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I can do 2.6 on my quad in conserve in mild temps fairly easily. I think 2.5 is fairly doable in the DM under the same conditions. So 2.5 mi per kwh * 11kwh is about 28 miles difference. As others said it will be more in city driving.

$10,000 is a lot but I would love to do a proper test on a max pack to show where it will be beneficial to have it.

 

[Supratachophobia]

This is about what I assumed the difference would be and still ultimately went with the max. My reasons were the following: 1. Over time, as the battery degrades, I’ll still be happy getting 300+ miles out of the max, but would be cutting it too close getting 270 out of the large, 2. If I drive 75-80mph, the large might struggle on a 250-260 mile round trip, 3. Pushing the limits of the battery and supercharging degrades the battery faster, so pushing a large battery would create the problems I’m concerned about whereas the max is less likely to degrade over time in my use case, 4. $10k isn’t really $10k when I use the car for work and can write-off a significant portion of the cost in year 1.

Higher density cells actually degrade faster.....

 

[Throwdown]

I've been critical of max pack since I found out in June it was only going to be a chemistry change. Can someone give me *any* reason why max pack would be a better choice for any reason besides 11kwh?

Yes if it was the only option for the same price as large ?

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