What's important to you for the price?

[TessP100D]

Here’s a weird comparison for you. So my wife really likes the Honda ridgeline (it’s actually very close in size to the R1T) and this next vehicle will be her daily driver. So let’s take a top line Ridgeline for about $45,000 and then start adding all the extra features you get with a R1T: adjustable air suspension, 11,000 pounds of towing versus 5000, acceleration of a supercar, superior gas mileage/efficiency, powered tonneau cover, nice stereo, on & on. So is my max pack R1T configured at ~$93,500 worth it? If it’s all that RJ says it does, absolutely it will be worth it. I think of the R1T as a multifunction tool.

93,500 for a small truck that can’t tow and haul much of anything…. Are you crazy?

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[ajbrutman]

I have an R1S reservation.

In no particular order.

1. Interior space. Needs to fit 3 car seats easily in 2nd row and have room for adults in the 3rd row. Some sort of tilt and slide function with a car seat installed is needed too.

2. Performance. 0-60 in 3 seconds and 1/4 in the mid 11’s is what I expect. I also expect it to handle much better than any other SUV due to the low center of gravity.

3. Reliability. My Tesla has been very reliable over 20k miles and I love not having to go to the dealer for oil changes or other items. Mobile service will be a plus.

4 Range. 300 miles going 70 mph in good conditions would be phenomenal. Might need to wait for the larger pack for this.

5. Intuitive user interface and improvements through OTA updates.

6. Hands free highway driving.

The explore R1S is going to be a relative bargain if they can deliver on their promises. $62,500 after the current tax credit.

I have an R1S reservation.

In no particular order.

1. Interior space. Needs to fit 3 car seats easily in 2nd row and have room for adults in the 3rd row. Some sort of tilt and slide function with a car seat installed is needed too.

2. Performance. 0-60 in 3 seconds and 1/4 in the mid 11’s is what I expect. I also expect it to handle much better than any other SUV due to the low center of gravity.

3. Reliability. My Tesla has been very reliable over 20k miles and I love not having to go to the dealer for oil changes or other items. Mobile service will be a plus.

4 Range. 300 miles going 70 mph in good conditions would be phenomenal. Might need to wait for the larger pack for this.

5. Intuitive user interface and improvements through OTA updates.

6. Hands free highway driving.

The explore R1S is going to be a relative bargain if they can deliver on their promises. $62,500 after the current tax credit.

I love this, I Ned to fit three car seats, but I also need to go 0-60 in 3 seconds.

 

[Riventures]

Good topic to discuss

Regardless of the amount, it is important for me not to have ‘specialized’ vehicles, e.g. single-purpose vehicles. Whichever car/truck/SUV I buy needs to fulfill multiple needs for me and my family. This is especially true for an SUV or truck.

The value I perceive with Rivian is almost all of it is focused on the unique vehicle dynamics. Luxury, speed, quality, range, utility, etc. all matter, but are not unique or best. However, I think Rivian will release vehicles with superior vehicle dynamics. Superior to Tesla, Ford, or any other company.

The quad motors along with a software-controlled drive system, suspension, and chassis are going to yield a totally new level of driving capabilities and experience. This cannot be achieved with two motors or tri-motor systems. So, Rivian’s solution in the short term will be unique to my best knowledge. Something I am looking forward towards.

10 years ago, this over-the-top vehicle dynamics ability would have been more than enough for me to put money into it. For those of you who can appreciate what is to come and are currently somewhat invisible, don’t think twice, jump into it. You are going to have the time of your life.

I am not in my 30s or 40s anymore, have different needs nowadays. These amazing vehicle dynamics are no longer my top desire or priority. Reliability, spaciousness, and multi-purpose are.

Each of those features is defined slightly differently for each person I think. For example, reliability. I do not believe the Rivian will be reliable enough to go off-roading consistently. Electronics are not reliable enough in general when you are off-grid. Air suspensions break down, you cannot escape it, it happens. When it happens, you cannot fix it on the spot, not like mechanical systems. Basic functions buried under several menus on a flat screen are not a good idea either. To have reliable functions, you need simple on/off switches on the dash that won’t break. What happens if your 16” screen shatters because your toddler threw his/her bottle and by sheer luck, it hit the main screen in the middle of a non-paved, no cell connection point? You need to be able to operate the vehicle under all circumstances. I am afraid Rivian is not going to be able to do that, and even RJ said it could, I would not believe him, yet!

Anyways, the short of it is that I am 100% sold and excited about Rivian’s vehicle dynamics that will come out, but that is no longer my top priority. Consequently, every day I am questioning the value for me.

 

[IHScout]

can’t tow

The R1T can't tow?

 

[BigE]

93,500 for a small truck that can’t tow and haul much of anything…. Are you crazy?

R1T is rated for 11k towing which exceeds most or many 1/2 ton trucks. My friends Ram 1500 is rated at 8,900 lbs towing...he had no idea it was that little. RJ has stated the R1T could or can pull 2-3 times as much but your range would be...not much I guess. Hauling, small bed but it will work just fine for our needs. Price...this is where I really need a test drive and some time with it. But for what we're looking for...I like more the driving dynamics, so I'm thinking if Porsche made a truck it would be like the R1T, which would be great for me. I've got a Max Pack pre-ordered so I'm fine with waiting until many others get their hands on them and can evaluate more then.

 

[sevengroove]

Regardless of the amount, it is important for me not to have ‘specialized’ vehicles, e.g. single-purpose vehicles. Whichever car/truck/SUV I buy needs to fulfill multiple needs for me and my family. This is especially true for an SUV or truck.

100% agree with this. We are a one-car household and intend to keep it that way, so the R1S will have to do everything from in-city errands to the odd trip to the office to weekend adventures outside the city.

At this price point, I've cast many an envious glance to the new Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer lineups. They look far more luxurious and have more creature comforts like massaging seats, ambient lights. AA/CarPlay etc. along with what seems to be a better fit and finish. I wish the Rivian had those but at the end of the day the quad electric motors, air suspension, ground clearance, and ludicrous acceleration are too difficult to pass up on. Even comparable EVs like the i-Pace or e-tron - which might one-up the R1S on luxury and fit and finish - cannot match the all-around capability of the Rivians.

 

[CarterGee]

I agree with pretty much everyone else here, but want to say just say that the single thing that would drive me crazy would be a bad, slow, or stuttery infotainment experience. I have a 2016 4Runner right now and the infotainment experience is just... so bad that it's a driving (pun intended) reason for getting a more modern vehicle.

Beyond that...

• Exceptional customer service and maintenance experience. I don't think I'd get too upset about a problem or two so long as the experience is good to fix it. I know I'm getting one of the first one of these.
• High quality interior materials. A dash that feels expensive, seats that don't pucker or stain, floors that can put up with my snowboard boots, etc
• 300+ mile range. COME ON EPA RANGES.
• Feels safe in the snow / mountains with amazing traction, good ride, etc.

 

[McMoo]

I love this, I Ned to fit three car seats, but I also need to go 0-60 in 3 seconds.

The kids get a bigger smile from the acceleration of my model 3 performance than me! I have to limit it because all I hear is “again, again” whenever I accelerate quickly.

Safety is the last point I forgot. It must receive top ratings. It would be a shock if it didn’t given the inherent benefit of an EV and not designing around an engine bay.

 

[TessP100D]

Good topic to discuss

Regardless of the amount, it is important for me not to have ‘specialized’ vehicles, e.g. single-purpose vehicles. Whichever car/truck/SUV I buy needs to fulfill multiple needs for me and my family. This is especially true for an SUV or truck.

The value I perceive with Rivian is almost all of it is focused on the unique vehicle dynamics. Luxury, speed, quality, range, utility, etc. all matter, but are not unique or best. However, I think Rivian will release vehicles with superior vehicle dynamics. Superior to Tesla, Ford, or any other company.

The quad motors along with a software-controlled drive system, suspension, and chassis are going to yield a totally new level of driving capabilities and experience. This cannot be achieved with two motors or tri-motor systems. So, Rivian’s solution in the short term will be unique to my best knowledge. Something I am looking forward towards.

10 years ago, this over-the-top vehicle dynamics ability would have been more than enough for me to put money into it. For those of you who can appreciate what is to come and are currently somewhat invisible, don’t think twice, jump into it. You are going to have the time of your life.

I am not in my 30s or 40s anymore, have different needs nowadays. These amazing vehicle dynamics are no longer my top desire or priority. Reliability, spaciousness, and multi-purpose are.

Each of those features is defined slightly differently for each person I think. For example, reliability. I do not believe the Rivian will be reliable enough to go off-roading consistently. Electronics are not reliable enough in general when you are off-grid. Air suspensions break down, you cannot escape it, it happens. When it happens, you cannot fix it on the spot, not like mechanical systems. Basic functions buried under several menus on a flat screen are not a good idea either. To have reliable functions, you need simple on/off switches on the dash that won’t break. What happens if your 16” screen shatters because your toddler threw his/her bottle and by sheer luck, it hit the main screen in the middle of a non-paved, no cell connection point? You need to be able to operate the vehicle under all circumstances. I am afraid Rivian is not going to be able to do that, and even RJ said it could, I would not believe him, yet!

Anyways, the short of it is that I am 100% sold and excited about Rivian’s vehicle dynamics that will come out, but that is no longer my top priority. Consequently, every day I am questioning the value for me.

I hope you are right on all accounts

 

[E.S.]

93,500 for a small truck that can’t tow and haul much of anything…. Are you crazy?

It is interesting that you think 5.5 tons "isn't much of anything". I'm almost curious to ask what you think would be "much of anything", but if 11k lbs isn't much, I fear your response would be something rather absurd.

 

[Daedalus]

I preordered the R1S a few days ago.
For me, I would love to see the R1S launch with outstanding levels of build quality especially with the quality of interior materials used.
At the price, I will be comparing the R1S with the BMW X5 or Audi Q7 fit and finish.

Hopefully after seeing the missteps and quality issue of Tesla, Rivian will aim to launch with the QA checks needed to equate or (preferably) exceed the quality and reliability of Tesla.

Rivian has promised range above 300 Miles/charge, assuming that this and the aforementioned quality standards are met within the delivery dates they have posted, then I will be happy with the R1S.
The R1S/R1T are the first products to be launched by Rivian, and similarly to Tesla, (regardless of how they executed) I am hoping that Rivian uses the opportunity to set a new benchmark.

(off-topic question ; has anyone heard any details about the running boards for the R1S - for helping shorter people enter/exit the SUV ?)

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Irrelevant to the discussion, but all the bagging on Land Rover made me want to comment, since I've been driving them for many years now. The old adage of LR's having crap reliability is a holdover that isn't entirely true anymore, in my opinion. I've had software issues in my last LR but no mechanical issues even after driving it like a race car for 3 years (it was a Velar).

I've got a Defender now and I've taken it out to do more extreme things than TFL has done and had no issues. I did a rock crawl with it on stock tires about 3 weeks ago that was far tougher than what TFL ran it through and it sailed through like a champ. I don't consider TFL shredding 2 tires as being an indication of an issue with LR reliability.

All of that being said, obviously everyone's experience is different and maybe I'm just getting lucky year after year. I don't, unfortunately, have a lot of friends with LRs so I can't say much from a wider perspective, but thus far I've found the Defender to be incredibly capable and without issues.

It will, however, be getting traded in when the R1T is ready for me

 

[Attesan997]

I preordered the R1S a few days ago.
For me, I would love to see the R1S launch with outstanding levels of build quality especially with the quality of interior materials used.
At the price, I will be comparing the R1S with the BMW X5 or Audi Q7 fit and finish.

Hopefully after seeing the missteps and quality issue of Tesla, Rivian will aim to launch with the QA checks needed to equate or (preferably) exceed the quality and reliability of Tesla.

Rivian has promised range above 300 Miles/charge, assuming that this and the aforementioned quality standards are met within the delivery dates they have posted, then I will be happy with the R1S.
The R1S/R1T are the first products to be launched by Rivian, and similarly to Tesla, (regardless of how they executed) I am hoping that Rivian uses the opportunity to set a new benchmark.

(off-topic question ; has anyone heard any details about the running boards for the R1S - for helping shorter people enter/exit the SUV ?)

I'm extremely hopeful and don't have any data to back this up but can't imagine anyone coming into the game now pulling a Tesla with build quality. At $70k+ tolerances are well within the luxury category and while those buyers may not examine every inch of a vehicle prior to purchase it's safe to say nothing should stand out either. But don't mind me, I may be salty my 50k VIN Y passenger seat creaks under anything but the most mild acceleration.

 

[Daedalus]

Irrelevant to the discussion, but all the bagging on Land Rover made me want to comment, since I've been driving them for many years now. The old adage of LR's having crap reliability is a holdover that isn't entirely true anymore, in my opinion. I've had software issues in my last LR but no mechanical issues even after driving it like a race car for 3 years (it was a Velar).


It will, however, be getting traded in when the R1T is ready for me

Good to hear from a LR owner.
The LR has a level of comfort and (build) quality that Rivian would benefit from emulating. I have heard concerning things about the reliability of the LR, but I hope the simplicity of the EV drivetrain (and exhaustive testing of the Rivian's) will allow for above average reliability.
I don't expect to use the offroad capabilities of the R1S while mall-crawling and puppy-hauling. So I am probably not the target audience.
I am not an off-roader and wonder if most owners of Land Rover even take their SUVs offroad (certainly not with the tires I see on them). I will pack a bunch of beach gear in the back when heading to the NJ shore or luggage for long road trips with the family, so range, comfort and reliability are my main considerations.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Irrelevant to the discussion, but all the bagging on Land Rover made me want to comment, since I've been driving them for many years now. The old adage of LR's having crap reliability is a holdover that isn't entirely true anymore, in my opinion. I've had software issues in my last LR but no mechanical issues even after driving it like a race car for 3 years (it was a Velar).

I've got a Defender now and I've taken it out to do more extreme things than TFL has done and had no issues. I did a rock crawl with it on stock tires about 3 weeks ago that was far tougher than what TFL ran it through and it sailed through like a champ. I don't consider TFL shredding 2 tires as being an indication of an issue with LR reliability.

All of that being said, obviously everyone's experience is different and maybe I'm just getting lucky year after year. I don't, unfortunately, have a lot of friends with LRs so I can't say much from a wider perspective, but thus far I've found the Defender to be incredibly capable and without issues.

It will, however, be getting traded in when the R1T is ready for me

Yeah, there are certain stereotypes which just won’t die no matter what and Land Rovers having terrible reliability is one of them.

We bought a 2006 LR3 from our local Land Rover dealer in 2014 with 109K miles on the odometer and documentation of a service history with the dealer. We bought it to use specifically for off-roading but also people hauling and debris hauling. As it turns out we’ve also used it as a tractor and for infrequent off-road towing.

The combination of handling, ride comfort, and off-road capability is almost unbelievable and at almost 224K miles it still does everything we ask of it. I think we ask way more of it than the overwhelming majority of Land Rover owners.

As a heavy, high-mileage vehicle with a fairly complex suspension system we have spent money on preventative maintenance and the occasional repair. However, it meets my definition of a reliable vehicle in that it has always gotten us home under its own power, even if something triggered a warning light.

We still go off-road in the desert in areas where there is no cell coverage for miles and we have seen temperatures up to 120F so it is safe to say that I continue to trust this vehicle.
If the TFL guys shredded 2 tires in a Land Rover Defender with 360-degree cameras then I’d say that’s squarely on them. On more than one occasion I’ve seen their videos on the Defender and thought, “You guys should really crack open the owner’s manual and learn how to use the various features.”

Back to Rivian, after we receive our R1S we plan to take several off-road rock crawling type excursions with both the LR3 and the R1S until we have the same level of trust in the Rivian’s off-road capability. After that, we’ll probably retire our LR3, which I expect to have close to 250K miles on the clock by then.

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