Real world dual-motor and max-pack reviews missing?

[Herb]

The Max Pack is 141 kWh usable per Rivian's website:

Well, mkhuffman's curious mind inquired whether I could have gone an extra 20 miles after 0%SOC. I took it as a somewhat hypothetical question. After some more research I retract my 149kWh statement. I looked at a number of EPA depletion/recharge tests, all fell between about 146 and 153kWh (rough average 149kWh). I didn't understand at that time that these numbers include charging losses (EPA measures total energy from wall to battery). I also didn't understand that I was looking at large pack data. Below is an example for a depletion/recharge test for max pack DP. Not knowing what charging losses of the EPA setup were, the listed 163kWh are academic. Why they use this number to calculate range, I don't know. Anyhow, if their charger is only 90% efficient, the actual battery capacity from fully charged to fully depleted would be a hypothetical 147kWh. So maybe hypothetically, I could have gone the extra 20 miles. This is just a thought experiment, I'll hopefully never try...

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[SeaGeo]

Well, mkhuffman's curious mind inquired whether I could have gone an extra 20 miles after 0%SOC. I took it as a somewhat hypothetical question. After some more research I retract my 149kWh statement. I looked at a number of EPA depletion/recharge tests, all fell between about 146 and 153kWh (rough average 149kWh). I didn't understand at that time that these numbers include charging losses (EPA measures total energy from wall to battery). I also didn't understand that I was looking at large pack data. Below is an example for a depletion/recharge test for max pack DP. Not knowing what charging losses of the EPA setup were, the listed 163kWh are academic. Why they use this number to calculate range, I don't know. Anyhow, if their charger is only 90% efficient, the actual battery capacity from fully charged to fully depleted would be a hypothetical 147kWh. So maybe hypothetically, I could have gone the extra 20 miles. This is just a thought experiment, I'll hopefully never try...

"They" don't use it to calculate range. The EPA uses it to estimate energy efficiency.

Look at the screenshot from Rivian's website and the energy used in the EPA tests. They're both 141kw.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Can we just reiterate that's it's extremely bad to deplete the battery to zero, OR further, even if you are able to? Enough talk of this, "how many more miles can I go past zero". Like, just put a pin in the discussion like when Homer got a deep fryer.

Homer: "See Marge, I told you I could deep fry my shirt?"

Marge: "Homer, I didn't say you couldn't deep fry your shirt, I said you shouldn't."

 

[mkhuffman]

Can we just reiterate that's it's extremely bad to deplete the battery to zero, OR further, even if you are able to? Enough talk of this, "how many more miles can I go past zero". Like, just put a pin in the discussion like when Homer got a deep fryer.

Homer: "See Marge, I told you I could deep fry my shirt?"

Marge: "Homer, I didn't say you couldn't deep fry your shirt, I said you shouldn't."

You are not living if you don't drive past 0%.

 

[Supratachophobia]

You are not living if you don't drive past 0%.

Trust me, going to -4% on my Tesla was enough to scare me straight.

 

[Herb]

"They" don't use it to calculate range. The EPA uses it to estimate energy efficiency.

Look at the screenshot from Rivian's website and the energy used in the EPA tests. They're both 141kw.

I have to admit that I don't understand how the EPA data is generated or used. If you have any more information on the topic, please share. I see on the EPA test data sheet:

The test indicates that 163kWh were consumed during the recharge event and we know all of that didn't go into the battery, yet it seems this number was used to calculate the depletion range which renders the number meaningless.
Also, where did the 22kWh delta go? Seems to be a lot for charging losses but I suppose it's possible. AC-DC conversion efficiency should be >97%, but the battery gets quite warm, and I guess there's active cooling.

I took the footnote to be information provided by Rivian, corroborated by the fact that the stated Wh/mi figures don't match the 3.23 mi/kWh in the test data:

 

[vandy1981]

Also, where did the 22kWh delta go? Seems to be a lot for charging losses but I suppose it's possible. AC-DC conversion efficiency should be >97%, but the battery gets quite warm, and I guess there's active cooling.

Losses with AC charging are usually 10-15% for EVs. DC charging appears much more efficient on paper (<5% loss) because the losses are incurred by the equipment on the shore-side of the plug.

 

[drivetorun]

Unfortunately, doesn't include any formal range testing, but Micah Muzio just posted a review of a performance dual motor max pack R1T. Generally, he was very positive in the review, but seemed suspect that the 400mi range estimate is realistic in the real world. Included some off-road testing.

 

[Herb]

Just completed a 900 mile roundtrip. Outbound, I achieved 2.44m/kWh with temperatures averaging about 60F. Had slight headwinds for a good part (based on wind map on a phone app). On the return trip temperatures were dropping from about 45 to 25 with fairly strong sidewinds. Cruise control set to 77, average 71.
Efficiency on return leg was clearly temperature dependent. Started at about 2.2 m/kWh and 15 min average would closely track to temperature drop - towards the end I was near 2mi/kWh. I believe this was mostly due to air density and possibly other friction components and tire losses, as battery temperature stayed mostly constant at around 90'. Air density changes significantly with temperature and to a lesser extent humidity. Charging experience at a couple of EA 350kW chargers was mostly positive, although each had 1 out of 6 out of service (one had a bad card reader). Charging at destination hotel was super easy at 25c/kWh vs 48 at supercharger. All in all not much slower than ICE experience as I would make a convenience stop either way.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Just completed a 900 mile roundtrip. Outbound, I achieved 2.44m/kWh with temperatures averaging about 60F. Had slight headwinds for a good part (based on wind map on a phone app). On the return trip temperatures were dropping from about 45 to 25 with fairly strong sidewinds. Cruise control set to 77, average 71.
Efficiency on return leg was clearly temperature dependent. Started at about 2.2 m/kWh and 15 min average would closely track to temperature drop - towards the end I was near 2mi/kWh. I believe this was mostly due to air density and possibly other friction components and tire losses, as battery temperature stayed mostly constant at around 90'. Air density changes significantly with temperature and to a lesser extent humidity. Charging experience at a couple of EA 350kW chargers was mostly positive, although each had 1 out of 6 out of service (one had a bad card reader). Charging at destination hotel was super easy at 25c/kWh vs 48 at supercharger. All in all not much slower than ICE experience as I would make a convenience stop either way.

Tires?

 

[OrthoBlock]

Replying to my own thread to see if anyone has seen any videos of the back-to-back off road performance between the dual and quad motor versions (per my original post)?

About 9 months on, I’ve yet to come across anything that actually addresses this.

I’m surprised.

 

[R.I.P.]

Replying to my own thread to see if anyone has seen any videos of the back-to-back off road performance between the dual and quad motor versions (per my original post)?

About 9 months on, I’ve yet to come across anything that actually addresses this.

I’m surprised.

How did we ever function before the ub tubers told us all how to live lol?

I can't help you with the "vid" angle, I predate the whole youtube craze. I have written pretty extensively about our tests of these vehicles however.

 

[OrthoBlock]

How did we ever function before the ub tubers told us all how to live lol?

I can't help you with the "vid" angle, I predate the whole youtube craze. I have written pretty extensively about our tests of these vehicles however.

Yes, I've read a number of impressions from individuals, which is definitely helpful.

That said, I gravitate to well done video [consistent camera angles, and situations -- don't care about production value in this context] as it removes some of the inherent subjective judgement that we all have when we describe the world.

It allows the viewer to form their own opinion from a shared fact base. I like that.

Plus, it's fun to watch

 

[R.I.P.]

Yes, I've read a number of impressions from individuals, which is definitely helpful.

That said, I gravitate to well done video [consistent camera angles, and situations -- don't care about production value in this context] as it removes some of the inherent subjective judgement that we all have when we describe the world.

It allows the viewer to form their own opinion from a shared fact base. I like that.

Plus, it's fun to watch

Can't help ya with that. ?

 

[OrthoBlock]

Reviving to top in hopes of someone having found any videos demonstrating back-to-back off-road differences between the dual-motor vehicles vs. the older 4 motor ones...

I'm surprised that so much time has passed and I still have not come across any video footage on this... Please point out if you guys have seen such!

At this point, the range questions have been largely covered, so not worried about that as much...

Anyone seen anything?

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