EV use can be more expensive than gas

[shopaholic]

I didn’t read all the replies, but the government should regulate extreme gouging. The wholesale commercial cost is like 1 cent /kW or less and even with capital expenses, 40/50 times the base price is a lot.

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[238AMK]

Have you ever compared your expenses on ev vs gas. I used my r1s this weekend and charged it a bit at a public charging station. It was $.50/kwh. It cost me $12.50 for a 57miles added miles. I then realized that it's actually going to cost me more to do a long drive with EV rather than a gas SUV. I would spend about $60 to get about 400 miles added for a range rover evoque while it would end up costing me about $87 to charge multiple times to get up to 400 miles added.

What are your experiences? Is charging in public always going to be costly?

Few weeks ago, I charged my R1S at a Tesla Supercharger. Few min after plugging in, I saw the cost already at $10, then realized that I was paying 80cents/Kwh !!! That mean cost $120 to go from near empty to full - to go for 260 miles at most.

I can spend $100 to top of my Escalade ESV (at $4.20/gal), and that can carry me from OC to Zion park (400 miles). I was in Dallas few days earlier, and with gas at $3/gal, you get even more for your money.

So it only makes sense if you charge at home, especially if you have solar.

 

[CrazyOne]

And what real numbers are you using to come to this conclusion?

Here are the numbers that come straight out of electrafi for my truck.

In the month of May, I paid a maximum of $73.96 to put 410.30 kWh into the battery. I say maximum as I have solar at home and any excess solar goes directly into the truck, but I don't have tracking set up for that... yet. This also includes a stop at an EVGO and Supercharger station on a road trip.

Overall mileage in May was 821 miles. If I use a 2024 Tacoma TRD PRO as a comparable truck, that averages 20 mpg. To travel the comparable mileage in a Tacoma, it would take 41 gallons of gas, The average price of gas in Dallas/Fort Worth in May has been $3.15. This would put the price of gas to drive the Tacoma the same distance at $130.

So for one month, I spent $60 less on electricity than I would have in gas. Using that as a baseline, I would have saved $720 in fuel costs for the entire year. To make it fair, I also have to pay $200/year more to register an EV in Texas. So now I’ve only saved $520. However, I’m going to assume you are going to change oil in the Tacoma twice in a year, so figure $100 for each oil change and now I’m back to saving $720/year,

Then you could also go into how much is your time worth to you? Charging happens at home at night after I’m done for the day. No wasting time at a gas station or being tempted to buy overpriced snacks and beverages while I fill up.

I guess you could also talk about insurance rates. In my case, I pay less for my R1T than I do for my Dodge Durango.

So how is an EV a bad financial decision?

Batteries aren't free. An ICE equivalent vehicle costs a minimum of 10k less. In reality, it's much more. My reasons for buying R1 are safety and the awesome suspension. Saving money isn't one. I won't save any money. Let's not even talk about battery replacements 10 years down the line.

 

[NeedSumCoffee]

I didn’t spend $100k on a car because I was trying to save money on gas.

 

[bmcenaney]

EV car is not a good finance decision. You spend more money on EV tax, depreciation due technology change, tires, etc.

If you charge at home it is cheaper than gas, public chargers are 1.5-3x more expensive than gas.

It is fun to drive, it is nice gadget , but not a good finance decision

And what real numbers are you using to come to this conclusion?

Here are the numbers that come straight out of electrafi for my truck.

In the month of May, I paid a maximum of $73.96 to put 410.30 kWh into the battery. I say maximum as I have solar at home and any excess solar goes directly into the truck, but I don't have tracking set up for that... yet. This also includes a stop at an EVGO and Supercharger on a road trip.

Overall mileage in May was 821 miles. If I use a 2024 Tacoma TRD PRO as a comparable truck, that averages 20 mpg. To travel the comparable mileage in the Tacoma, it would take 41 gallons of gas, The average price of gas in Dallas/Fort Worth in May has been $3.15. This would put the price of gas to drive the Tacoma the same amount of miles at $130.

So for one month, I spent $60 less on electricity than I would have in gas. Using that as a baseline, I would have saved $720 in fuel costs for the entire year. To make it fair, I also have to pay $200/year more to register an EV in Texas. So now I’ve only saved $520. However, I’m going to assume you are going to change the oil on the Tacoma twice in a year, so figure $100 for each oil change and now I’m back to saving $720/year.

Then you could also go into how much is your time worth to you? Charging happens at home at night after I’m done for the day. No wasting time at a gas station or being tempted to buy overpriced snacks and beverages while I fill up.

I guess you could also talk about insurance rates. In my case, I pay less for my R1T than I do for my Dodge Durango.

So if you can L2 charge at home or work, how is an EV a bad financial decision?

Batteries aren't free. An ICE equivalent vehicle costs a minimum of 10k less. In reality, it's much more. My reasons for buying R1 are safety and the awesome suspension. Saving money isn't one. I won't save any money. Let's not even talk about battery replacements 10 years down the line.

Neither is replacing fuel injectors, spark plugs, wiring harnesses, fuel pumps, transmissions, etc. Every vehicle has its trade offs. I’m just tired of the FUD being spread about EVs.

 

[CrazyOne]

And what real numbers are you using to come to this conclusion?

Here are the numbers that come straight out of electrafi for my truck.

In the month of May, I paid a maximum of $73.96 to put 410.30 kWh into the battery. I say maximum as I have solar at home and any excess solar goes directly into the truck, but I don't have tracking set up for that... yet. This also includes a stop at an EVGO and Supercharger on a road trip.

Overall mileage in May was 821 miles. If I use a 2024 Tacoma TRD PRO as a comparable truck, that averages 20 mpg. To travel the comparable mileage in the Tacoma, it would take 41 gallons of gas, The average price of gas in Dallas/Fort Worth in May has been $3.15. This would put the price of gas to drive the Tacoma the same amount of miles at $130.

So for one month, I spent $60 less on electricity than I would have in gas. Using that as a baseline, I would have saved $720 in fuel costs for the entire year. To make it fair, I also have to pay $200/year more to register an EV in Texas. So now I’ve only saved $520. However, I’m going to assume you are going to change the oil on the Tacoma twice in a year, so figure $100 for each oil change and now I’m back to saving $720/year.

Then you could also go into how much is your time worth to you? Charging happens at home at night after I’m done for the day. No wasting time at a gas station or being tempted to buy overpriced snacks and beverages while I fill up.

I guess you could also talk about insurance rates. In my case, I pay less for my R1T than I do for my Dodge Durango.

So if you can L2 charge at home or work, how is an EV a bad financial decision?

Neither is replacing fuel injectors, spark plugs, wiring harnesses, fuel pumps, transmissions, etc. Every vehicle has its trade offs. I’m just tired of the FUD being spread about EVs.

I have 2010 with 110k miles. Timing belt, water pump and spark plugs were like $1700. Should be good for another 100k. High mileage Teslas have gone through multiple battery and motor replacements and is well documented. And they use Panasonic cells, which I would trust more than Samsung cells. A Lexus LX - comparable to R1s would go 500k miles with ease. Facts aren't FUD, just because you want it to be so. Oh yeah, it's a V6 with MT. Original brake pads too.

 

[betak]

With recent hikes in electricity rates by PG&E it has become very expensive to charge your car at home in California, even during off peak hours. I get around 40 cents per kwH when charging at off peak rates. That is just crazy expensive now.

The truck is a tight fit in the garage, so my options are limited. I’ve only used public charging as it’s about the same price as home charging due to PG&E rates. The EV2-A plan is $0.35 kWh after midnight. RAN is $0.36. Two Tesla superchargers near me at $0.30 with membership & off-peak ToU. In hindsight I should have done more research beforehand but TBH it wouldn’t have mattered because the grin it puts on my face is priceless! ?

 

[bmcenaney]

Why did you buy an R1 again? Why are you even on here? You don’t seem like a happy EV owner.

 

[dfx]

I have 2010 with 110k miles. Timing belt, water pump and spark plugs were like $1700. Should be good for another 100k. High mileage Teslas have gone through multiple battery and motor replacements and is well documented. And they use Panasonic cells, which I would trust more than Samsung cells. A Lexus LX - comparable to R1s would go 500k miles with ease. Facts aren't FUD, just because you want it to be so. Oh yeah, it's a V6 with MT. Original brake pads too.

One recent service visit for my wife's Macan was $2850 and it was scheduled maintenance(4 year). Our Porsche dealer requires Porsche service for the warranty and they bill out mechanics at $300/hr.
There's a huge variance in maintenance costs from vehicle to vehicle. Suffice it to say that in certain situations an EV can be more costly than ICE but the majority of EV owners save money vs owning ICE. I have saved thousands of dollars over the years, but also have the benefit of very affordable electricity rates(nuke is 60% in our grid) and some of the higher gasoling prices in the country- and that's not assuming Premium gasoline prices which are outrageous in our area.

 

[ads75]

It should - but for this we need Nuclear plants (the last one we built was 25 years ago). The problem with Nuclear - is almost impossible to get approvals to build one. We prefer to kill rare birds with wind turbines, and use huge amounts of land for solar instead of building gen 4 nuclear.

Our technology (managed by Westinghouse) is so outdated, that despite sanctions on Russia, Rosatom is exempted from these sanctions as we can not manage our Nuclear sites without Russia.

You are incorrect on when the last nuclear plant was built. You said 25 years ago. Vogtle 4 entered commercial operation about a month ago. And Vogtle 3 was in the last few years as well.
https://www.georgiapower.com/compan...ogtle-unit-4-enters-commercial-operation.html
As to why there aren't more, just google the total cost of Vogtle 3+4 (around $34 Billion...billion...with a B). Or look at the cost of VC Summer, which has two incomplete plants, to the tune of $9 billion dollars.

I am pro nuclear. I used to work at a nuclear plant. But the building cost has to be contained. Small modular reactors sound promising, but until they enter commercial operation, they are theories, or nice ideas.

 

[CrazyOne]

One recent service visit for my wife's Macan was $2850 and it was scheduled maintenance(4 year). Our Porsche dealer requires Porsche service for the warranty and they bill out mechanics at $300/hr.
There's a huge variance in maintenance costs from vehicle to vehicle. Suffice it to say that in certain situations an EV can be more costly than ICE but the majority of EV owners save money vs owning ICE. I have saved thousands of dollars over the years, but also have the benefit of very affordable electricity rates(nuke is 60% in our grid) and some of the higher gasoling prices in the country- and that's not assuming Premium gasoline prices which are outrageous in our area.

You are correct. However, Teslas are the the best case scenario for EVs so far. I don't even like their cars. If we look at bad EVs like Leaf, it's a lot worse. Almost all 10 years old ones have very high degradation and are pretty much junk.

 

[mung]

The truck is a tight fit in the garage, so my options are limited. I’ve only used public charging as it’s about the same price as home charging due to PG&E rates. The EV2-A plan is $0.35 kWh after midnight. RAN is $0.36. Two Tesla superchargers near me at $0.30 with membership & off-peak ToU. In hindsight I should have done more research beforehand but TBH it wouldn’t have mattered because the grin it puts on my face is priceless! ?

Is there a ToU rate for Tesla superchargers? I charge my Model 3 all this time and didn't know.

 

[mung]

BTW I saw this being posted on the Rivian subreddit, it's for Rivian owners with enphase solar installed in their house. It uses the Enphase API and the Rivian API to set charging speeds every 10 minutes depending on excess solar being generated. With this you can maximize usage of excess solar towards charging the Rivian. Thought it's really cool, I plan to try it out on my solar install soon.

https://github.com/ostap-korkuna/rivian-charging-automation

 

[Ngkgb]

Oh right, I wasn't aware of SDG&E before. Curious what others in CA are getting in terms of electricity rate.

Also on OC here but with SCE. Get about 24cents/kwh off peak.

 

[betak]

Is there a ToU rate for Tesla superchargers? I charge my Model 3 all this time and didn't know.

Maybe it only applies for non-Teslas or certain locations?

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