Restrooms @ charging stations

[Rivian312]

We just completed our first long trip from Chicago to northern Michigan and back. Charging was easy and seamless. We were pleasantly surprised to find several fast charging sites in the parking lots of Culver's (a family favorite - if you're not from the midwest you won't understand).

I was surprised though that on the ride home the RAN in Benton Harbor in front of a Dunkin that was such a nice stop in the morning on our way up closed at 9:00 p.m. - although plenty dark enough for me to duck behind the trash collection for a bio break. I could have walked across the parking lot to the gas station across the way but didn't on general principle and laziness.

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[Robin]

I’ve found when the charge station is part of an outlet mall that’s closed, it works to walk to the backside and show my kids the art of peeing in the bushes lol!

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[Robin]

BYORR

Man, they used to be. Thank covid for pushing them over the edge on that decision.

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As it happens, I am 20,000 miles in 9 months with mostly highway driving from north of Boston to Grand Junction, Colorado. Immediately after my first week of ownership, I noted I had become a Second Class Citizen when it comes to Fueling my BEV vs. ICE ride.

For the record 98% of my charging is at ChargePoint or Electrify America DC Chargers because my condo association will not allow Level 2 chargers. Once in Boston, charged for 4 hours at a level 2, twice I used the portable at a friend's house, then tried a few that were near a trail heads for a bike ride. Overall, not worth the hassles and poor rate of charge. I use Public DC Fast Chargers exclusively.

This Public Charging solution is most commonly located in the back of a Mall, behind the dumpsters or at the far end of parking lots with no amenities. The only place I was treated like a Gas vehicle owner was at Sheetz where the chargers are less then 50 steps from the gas pumps. Sheetz had a decent 'gas station' convenience store, a separate eatery with a large menu for scratch made lunches and the star attraction my wife most appreciated ----> Clean bathrooms. Anywhere else, NO Facilites. Most charging locations are at places that you would normally not leave your wife, son or daughter alone for 5 minutes let alone your $100,000 vehicle for a 45-minute charging session. Even in Chicago, New York and Denver, chargers are not located with common facilities we might use - a Food Market, restaurant or other shopping that you might take advantage of while dropping plus $0.46 per kWh or higher rate. Aspen is plus $0.56 per kWh which is the nearest Public Fast Charger at 20 miles away in one direction.

When you are able to work with business owners, Property managers, power companies and convince them that there is an advantage to install a Charger near the front doors of the King Sooper, Safeway, Jewel's or other convivence/shopping center with restaurants, cleaners, hardware, banks and other shopping --- Then we will be on even ground with Gas/Diesel fuel stations and treated accordingly.

Today, we are a minority and seriously treated like the bastard stepchildren of medieval days. Recently or about 4 weeks ago, 4 of the 5 chargers in Aspen had the cables cut off. WHY?!?!? Because they were located in unmonitored, dark areas, distant from any watchful eye (surveillance cameras - never in a million years) and where nobody travels and thieves had easy pickings. Today, there is no repair date scheduled. Does this happen to Gas stations?

Google reports there we over 13 million ICE vehicle built last year, and 600 thousand Electric Vehicles sold last year or a total of only 3.3 million Electric Vehicles on the roads in America today. There are over 234 million licensed drivers who own at least one vehicle in the USA. If we ever mange to become 10% of the registered car owners, Maybe and that is a wishful MAYBE, will we, as EV owners who use Public Charging Stations, will we possibly be treated with respect.

Apologies - Soapbox rising.

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[clockwork crane]

BYORR

This. Towing brings in its own set of complications, and adds more charging stops, but at least I never have to find a bathroom when I'm charging.

 

[beatle]

It always amazes me when people feel they have the right to know and that the transparency is required for decisions made by a third party.

As a 6+ yrs user of Supercharger and 14 months user of RAN/EA/EVgo/ChargePoint, I have never wondered what the business decision processes are for site selection. Further, I have no need or desire to have transparency of their decisions.

All I know and care is that Tesla Supercharges are great compared to everyone else, regardless of the location, and all EV DCFC charging companies suck mostly due to lack of charging terminal in quantity and in working conditions. Rivian's RAN is in between closer to Tesla than others.

People get worked up about the fact that the infrastructure is very poor compared to all the truck and highway stops ICE vehicles enjoy but keep in mind that ICE vehicles been the ONLY power plant for auto for the past 100 yrs for all practical purposes.

The fact that we have a robust network of Superchargers in 10 years. or so by a single company is amazing and in another 5 years, it will be significantly greater with everyone else working to address the infrastructure issue.

I never said I or anyone had a "right to know" or that "transparency is required" for anything related to charging site selection. I only said that knowing how sites are chosen would answer questions about why some sites have no/few amenities. Instead, I just have to give the decision makers the benefit of the doubt that a more ideal location (like up the road from the new Raphine station) just wasn't possible for some reason or another.

This thread isn't about charging availability or uptime or even Tesla vs. other charging networks; it's about adjacent amenity availability at charging stations.

 

[j.w.s]

You know you don't have to stand there and hold the handle, like you do with a gas nozzle? It only takes 5 seconds to plug in, you're not going to get wet. If it's raining, open your charge port door from the center screen so all you have to do is plug in.

I wish EV charging stations only took five seconds to connect! Not even Tesla. In reality it takes about a minute all in, from opening the car door to closing it again, which is plenty of time to either get wet or need to fully gear up. On the other hand, a simple roof would be far more civilized - which I know from experience, having been to more than a few fully developed charging stations in Europe and the US.
Not that every station needs to be this fancy, but check out Electrify America San Francisco, with 20x 350Kw chargers, nice bathrooms, and a nice sitting area:

 

[RivianRunner]

I wish EV charging stations only took five seconds to connect! Not even Tesla. In reality it takes about a minute all in, which is plenty of time to either get wet or need to fully gear up.

Incorrect. I've been using Tesla Superchargers for over 6 years and there is nothing mechanical in the way of simply unhooking the charge handle from the Supercharger and inserting it into the open charge port on my car. No waiting, no fuss. It literally takes 5 seconds, every single time.

I just plug it in and get back in the car (or go do whatever I need to do). I never stand around and wait.

What you are talking about reminds me of some early experiences I had on third party chargers that had a screen and required special apps to work. I gave up on them six years ago and never looked back. Good riddance! Superchargers don't have screens, any interaction with them is either from the center screen inside the car or your phone (if you are not in your car).

Please don't spread untrue information.

 

[RivianRunner]

The fact that we have a robust network of Superchargers in 10 years. or so by a single company is amazing and in another 5 years, it will be significantly greater with everyone else working to address the infrastructure issue.

It gives me hope to see someone celebrating the positive, more of a "glass half-full" perspective than those whose glass is always half empty. If EVs are to replace ICE the solution has to come from private companies, the government cannot do things this big anymore. There simply isn't enough money in their tax base to pay for how incredibly inefficient they have proven to be. It doesn't matter if the goal is to travel in space or build a network of fast chargers, the government needs 10-40 times the money compared to a truly efficient private company.

People forget how important capital efficiency is, it allows so much more accomplishment with the same number of initial resources. And the world will never have unlimited resources. So, the more efficiently we can use them, the higher our standard of living, the better off we become. Capital efficiency is the key to high living standards.

So, yes, we should celebrate those who can be capitally efficient, that is why capitalism is the only economic system that can provide a high standard of living for the citizens. That affluence is what provides the tax base for the government to perform functions that governments perform best. Like law enforcement, courts, schools and roads and bridges. Government doesn't build gas stations, and they shouldn't build EV charging stations, they should support the efforts of private companies who are making it happen.

Tesla can build 20 times as many fast chargers per million dollars of allocated capital, compared to the federal government. The reason for that is because there are anti-EV interests that will follow government money that is earmarked for EV infrastructure to insure it is wasted. They will throw a wrench into every single step of building out EV infrastructure with public money and do everything in their power to ensure the charging experience is less than satisfactory and as much money as possible is simply wasted. Only private companies that guard against unsavory cretins inserting themselves into the project to muck things up can succeed.

Companies that depend upon continuing ICE sales for their sustenance literally cannot build out a world-class DCFC charging network, as long as consumers will still buy ICE cars, it's impossible for them to give their customers a better alternative. The proof is in the pudding. They have billions of dollars at their disposal and yet one tiny company has been able to make a DCFC network that EV motorists actually like to use, while all of them together have done almost nothing (but create frustrating EV experiences). Then there are the apologists who claim the third-party DCFC'ers are great, they have never had a problem. Yeah, right, I wasn't born yesterday.

Tesla has done 20 times as much for useable EV infrastructure as all the ICE companies combined. That's a level of insanity that deserves to be celebrated in any civilized society. But there are too many people that don't like success. Too much success at tackling difficult problems is a bad thing, they think. It makes others look bad and incapable. It causes too rapid of change. For whatever reason, they want to shit on the most exceptional company. But in a civilized society, everyone should celebrate success and using capital efficiency to achieve more with less.

After all, I've never met an EV motorist who didn't appreciate great DCFC infrastructure that they could count on and that was well located relative to travel routes and amenities. This is a big driver of increasing our standard of living.

 

[j.w.s]

Incorrect. I've been using Tesla Superchargers for over 6 years and there is nothing mechanical in the way of simply unhooking the charge handle from the Supercharger and inserting it into the open charge port on my car. No waiting, no fuss. It literally takes 5 seconds, every single time.

I just plug it in and get back in the car (or go do whatever I need to do). I never stand around and wait.

What you are talking about reminds me of some early experiences I had on third party chargers that had a screen and required special apps to work. I gave up on them six years ago and never looked back. Good riddance! Superchargers don't have screens, any interaction with them is either from the center screen inside the car or your phone (if you are not in your car).

Please don't spread untrue information.

Remember that I'm talking here about charging a Rivian using various brand chargers, and talking about the total time needed to exit the car in the rain, retrieve and plug in the cable, fold your umbrella, etc. and get back in the car. Based on my experience, about a minute is how long it takes plus or minus. It's not bad at all, but it's certainly long enought that I want a roof over my head when doing it in the rain - which gets back to the central point of my post, which is that I think that charging stations should have roofs, just like gas stations. I mention that again to emphasize that this is post is about charging stations and restrooms, not Tesla plug-in time, to which I added that I'd also like a roof and a cafe please.

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