Gen 1 Vampire Drain (Possibly) Solved (or Hacked)

[CO-rayman]

I'm a few days into keeping the 12V battery topped off with a trickle charger. I'm tracking the consumption from the trickle charger as well as normal loss reordered on the Rivian. After 3 days the Rivian finally showed 1 kwh loss. Adding in the consumption of the 12v charger I averaged 0.7 kwh per day. I'm going to continue to monitor and suspect it's actually a bit lower over a longer average, but that's already much better than the 2.33 kwh/day I was consistently losing prior. I sleep better at night knowing the waste had been dramatically reduced.

I'm using a 4A charger connected via a magnetic quick connect attached with double sided tape at the bottom left of the front windshield.

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Would appreciate some pictures showing where you let the connector rest by the windshield. Can you reach it without opening the frunk?

Also, do you have a dual battery configuration and used two separate connectors?

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[Jakelake]

Hey! I'm curious of your results... Now that my R1T is sitting dead in my garage, I have time to read about this stuff

I think this was briefly addressed in this thread but a LiFPo4 battery has a very different charging voltage and profile compared to an AGM battery. Some LFP batteries have an internal battery management system that will regulate power from an alternator to properly charge them. The Rivian would have to have some sort of battery management system to properly charge the LFP battery or the battery itself would have to have an internal BMS that could take what ever the Rivian system is feeding it and be able to alter the voltage and profile to make it properly charge the very expensive LFP battery. Best case scenario would be that you destroy your expensive 12 volt battery very quickly. Worst case is you damage something in the Rivian charging system that would brick the vehicle and require an expensive repair by Rivian. It is not just a simple replacement of the AGM battery with a LFP battery. It might be doable but I would proceed with caution and do lots of research before I made the switch. Also, as previously mentioned, a LFP battery does not like cold temperatures, they discharge much faster when it's cold. And the discharge of a LFP battery is different from a AGM battery. If will function normally down to about 10% charge then die without warning and almost instantaneously. Without a voltage warning when it gets low you might be surprised by a dead battery at an inopportune place and time. Of course you have the same problem with an AGM battery but the Rivian may give some kind of warning that you are getting low on voltage before it actually dies. I don't know.

 

[ascientist]

Mine is a single battery, so just connected to one. No need to open the frunk. The cable hangs from my garage ceiling a few feet off the ground (as does the primary charging cable), so connecting and disconnecting is quick.

 

[NY_Rob]

Good to see other owners start to implement the 12V charging idea. Maybe if Rivian see enough people resorting to extreme measures to kill VD in their vehicles Rivian might start to take the issue seriously and address it in a meaningful way.

 

[josh0]

I think this was briefly addressed in this thread but a LiFPo4 battery has a very different charging voltage and profile compared to an AGM battery. Some LFP batteries have an internal battery management system that will regulate power from an alternator to properly charge them. The Rivian would have to have some sort of battery management system to properly charge the LFP battery or the battery itself would have to have an internal BMS that could take what ever the Rivian system is feeding it and be able to alter the voltage and profile to make it properly charge the very expensive LFP battery. Best case scenario would be that you destroy your expensive 12 volt battery very quickly. Worst case is you damage something in the Rivian charging system that would brick the vehicle and require an expensive repair by Rivian. It is not just a simple replacement of the AGM battery with a LFP battery. It might be doable but I would proceed with caution and do lots of research before I made the switch. Also, as previously mentioned, a LFP battery does not like cold temperatures, they discharge much faster when it's cold. And the discharge of a LFP battery is different from a AGM battery. If will function normally down to about 10% charge then die without warning and almost instantaneously. Without a voltage warning when it gets low you might be surprised by a dead battery at an inopportune place and time. Of course you have the same problem with an AGM battery but the Rivian may give some kind of warning that you are getting low on voltage before it actually dies. I don't know.

DC-DC chargers that can take a broad range of input voltages, and properly charg3 batteries of a variety of chemistries exist that would solve this problem. Many even have MPPT solar chargers built-in, and so would make it very easy to augment with a solar panel. Redarc even makes one that will accept those two plus AC, so You could simply plug it in when possible, as well.

If I were going to switch to lithium, I would definitely get a dual-input charger and add solar, as well.

 

[Yossarian]

Here's an official response from Rivian Service regarding parasitic drain. My question asked simply what the normal level of parasitic drain for a 2024 R1T was. I have not responded to the Service reply, but intend to push back on 5% being normal absent special circumstances. I suppose I should be happy that the official reply does not echo the "up to 12% is normal" statement another tech made.

 

[JerseyGreens]

Good to see other owners start to implement the 12V charging idea. Maybe if Rivian see enough people resorting to extreme measures to kill VD in their vehicles Rivian might start to take the issue seriously and address it in a meaningful way.

I'm still curious if a lithium ion 12v would solve most of this. Because then that's something Rivian can act on rather quickly.

 

[josh0]

I'm still curious if a lithium ion 12v would solve most of this. Because then that's something Rivian can act on rather quickly.

A lithium ion battery would also require software and possibly hardware updates, as lithium batteries have different charge profiles than lead ones. Simply swapping a lithium battery in with no other changes would work for a while, and would give you more capacity, but charging it with a charger designed for lead batteries will eventually render it inoperable, and cause more difficulties overall.

If you also added a proper battery charger, that would resolve the charging issue, but could have unpredictable impacts on vampire drain as the system is currently monitoring the voltage of the 12V system expecting a lead battery, which behaves differently.

 

[SSteveEV]

Good to see other owners start to implement the 12V charging idea. Maybe if Rivian see enough people resorting to extreme measures to kill VD in their vehicles Rivian might start to take the issue seriously and address it in a meaningful way.

Based on this thread alone it is clear there are a lot of differing reasons to reduce drain:
Environmental, range, cost, etc.

I'd love for Rivian to not just give up on Gen 1 drain but now that they have embraced they have a fundamental hardware issue with the whole vehicle waking up give us a phantom button option. They can bury the option to turn on the hotkey deep in settings but give us the option to select what we want disabled at the press of a single button.

Picture a little ghost/battery saver button beside the garage door button and let us set up the modes we want:
On/off HVAC
On/off music
On/off proximity locking
On/off most of the lock sensors so only a key card works at the driver door
On/off data connection
On/off slow wakeup (say, unlock then wait 2 min to boot and drive)
On/off whatever else they know sucks power from the 12V

This would allow people to do a 1 click on and off exit depending on how long they are leaving for.
Extra points if it is enabled via the phone app (not disabled obviously)

When the balance of best user experience vs power drain has some hooking up battery tenders every time they park it is time to give the users some software relief. Pretty please!!

(Also in my perfect world this would resemble HVAC and music etc when put into drive or some other triggering events)

 

[CarlM408]

Hey! I'm curious of your results... Now that my R1T is sitting dead in my garage, I have time to read about this stuff

The ODB2 port works great, it provides a direct connection to the 12v system and does not go dark when the vehicle goes to sleep like the 12v plug in the gear tunnel. Feeding it trickle-charger power (and disable proximity locking, wifi, and the gear guard and/or put it in camp mode) will keep the vehicle asleep basically indefinitely. If you're feeling shy about digging into the front cowling to tap the battery directly, or want to have your hacked together 12v charging system fully within the cabin, then this worked perfect. Power draw is ~250wh/24h with small 800mA tender (Battery Tender Junior 800).

Actually the combination of those two 12v ports, OBD2 & Gear Tunnel, works absolutely perfectly for my intended use, which is for road tripping / camping. I have a ~800wh camp battery (Bluetti EB70S) buckled into the back seat feeding the trickle charger which then has it's wire run under the front seat, front floor mats, and to the ODB2 port. The camp battery in turn gets charged by the 12v port in the gear tunnel, supplying about 85w of power but only when the vehicle is awake. Therefore we need to either drive 3 hours a day to replace the trickle-charger's drain, or if we are parked camping in the same spot for a few days then a set of solar panels would supply additional camp battery power.

Some other fun things I learned while playing with all this:
Opening ANY door wakes the truck up, camp mode or not
Leaving doors open is fine, the truck will fall back asleep in ~15 minutes.
Then however, CLOSING any door will again wake the truck up! Excepting the gear tunnel doors and the tailgate for a fun extra technicality.

No comparison data on the Ohmmu yet, haven't had time to swap to see how the vehicle's behavior changes or bench test the OEM battery. Sub to my youtube channel for that review in due course and additional detail on all the above.

 

[shap]

Here's an official response from Rivian Service regarding parasitic drain. My question asked simply what the normal level of parasitic drain for a 2024 R1T was. I have not responded to the Service reply reply but intend to push back on 5% being normal absent special circumstances. I suppose I should be happy that the official reply does not echo the "up to 12% is normal" statement another tech made.

. up to 7kw per night loss is normal. Amazing.... I should repost this on Twitter and Facebook - shaming sometimes works

100k vehicles, let's say 2 kwh per night per car average loss, 73 Mega Watt parasitic loss every year for the fleet! But we are saving the climate, right?

 

[NY_Rob]

. up to 7kw per night loss is normal. Amazing.... I should repost this on Twitter and Facebook - publish shaming sometimes works

If I was on social media I would, it's official from Rivian... not like it's some made up text message. If they're ashamed or embarrassed by that number.. fix it!

 

[mudito]

. up to 7kw per night loss is normal. Amazing.... I should repost this on Twitter and Facebook - publish shaming sometimes works

Link me to that tweet when you post it

 

[JerseyGreens]

A lithium ion battery would also require software and possibly hardware updates, as lithium batteries have different charge profiles than lead ones. Simply swapping a lithium battery in with no other changes would work for a while, and would give you more capacity, but charging it with a charger designed for lead batteries will eventually render it inoperable, and cause more difficulties overall.

If you also added a proper battery charger, that would resolve the charging issue, but could have unpredictable impacts on vampire drain as the system is currently monitoring the voltage of the 12V system expecting a lead battery, which behaves differently.

I'm thinking the Lithium one would need much less topping off versus the current one.

There is one available on the market and I bet some users on the forums have made the swap. Would love their input!

 

[Yossarian]

. up to 7kw per night loss is normal. Amazing.... I should repost this on Twitter and Facebook - publish shaming sometimes works

I would personally not go the shaming route, at least not at this juncture. Supposedly, Wassym Bensaid monitors and responds to postings on social media, which I think means his FB page. Maybe post sometihing there to get Wassym to look at this thread?

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