Out of Spec 10% Challenge of Gen2 R1T dual Max: Massively Negative!

[jpmc86]

I think Rivian messed up calling it a gen2. The intent was to bring mfg cost down, and somehow in essence people think it’s about a better product for the end user. It’s not. The cameras are better, the computers are faster, the suspension is changed (I do not consider it better). All of these changes do not call for a “refresh” as many title them. Anyone who says it is, doesn’t understand them. Similar product to gen1, increased price for consumer and less cost to mfg eventually. That’s the recipe. People need to get off the high horse of gen2 “upgrade” lol.

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[Zorg]

I purchased a gen2 max pack and my thoughts so far are.. 1) not bad but not as exciting as the gen1 quad to drive 2) the audio is terrible 3) the driver assist is very below average.. i do have a Tesla with FSD however 4) wind noise from the glass roof I think 5) AC noisy, car steams up not sure why 6)this is more of a me issue as i have prior back surgery/issues.. the seats are way too firm. This last item has me needing to seriously consider the trade for an alternate vehicle.. I am thinking the Sierra Denali or if I can wait the Escalade IQ. Love Rivian as a brand but for 100k vehicle it should have better audio and seats and fit and finish.. also having to wait many months for a service ticket when at delivery you are told to submit a ticket but no mention of it taking many months to get a service appointment.

Re. The seats. We have a Nov 2022 R1T and at first I found the seats too firm, borderline uncomfortable. After a few months they were broken in and now I find them perfect. Did a couple long road trips and they were very comfy.

You may want to wait a few months.

 

[Zorg]

If you keep power the same and double the voltage, the current will be cut in half, Ohm's law: P(power) = V(voltage) * I(current). Now look at Joule’s Law of Electric Heating, below. Since heat is proportional to the square of current over time it will be much cooler. However, if the power increases and the voltage is held constant, current will increase, Ohm's law again. So each person above is partially correct, depending on how much power the Rivian requests. If the system goes to 800V and the charge rate (power) doubles the heat generated will be roughly the same. If they go 800V and only increase the charge rate by 50% it will stay cooler and be easier to manage thermals, and we will get a overall better charging experience. Of course there are many other complicating factors to consider, I just wanted to keep it simple. I hope this helps.

Joule's law:

Current at cell level remains the same and that's where the issue is.

 

[pickupman2022]

Very interesting video. Everybody is commenting on the charging speeds but I would love to hear more from anyone that has switched from a Gen 1 quad R1T and now has a Gen 2 Dual large... I have a Gen 2 Dual large on order and now debating id I should be getting rid of my Gen 1... Don't really care about the charging speed as I mostly charge at home. But some of the things that concern me from his video are.

-Dual motor making loud banging noise when it switches to front wheel drive
- loud noise outside from the AC compressor
- He mentions how bad the stereo is... Some say there same and others say its good. ( I have the Meridian in my gen 1

I always take these YouTube videos with a grain if salt,... but the more I research about the Gen 2 has me questioning my Gen 2 reservation and getting rid of my Gen 1.

Cheers

I'm trading my 22 Gen 1 Quad for a 25 get 2 dual large in Rivian blue tomorrow! Kyle complained about gen 1 charging too but I never noticed issues with mine. My gen 1 gets crazy loud when pre-conditioning, but normal A/C use was fine. I don't know if I'll be able to make a good compression for a while though as we are supposed to be getting cold weather here for a while.

 

[Robin]

Take away his early access to software updates for his monetized videos and let's see how much more he complains.

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[R1Tom]

I think Rivian messed up calling it a gen2. The intent was to bring mfg cost down, and somehow in essence people think it’s about a better product for the end user. It’s not. The cameras are better, the computers are faster, the suspension is changed (I do not consider it better). All of these changes do not call for a “refresh” as many title them. Anyone who says it is, doesn’t understand them. Similar product to gen1, increased price for consumer and less cost to mfg eventually. That’s the recipe. People need to get off the high horse of gen2 “upgrade” lol.

To me the only legit reason to call them G2 is the electronic platform. But even that really isn't consumer facing and it is yet to be seen what that will really bring to the table if much.

The rest is basically trim stuff and packaging revisions.

But hey....if Rivian can convince a bunch of people to "upgrade"....why not? As someone who has spent a career in sales...the smoke and mirrors success they are getting is impressive.

But....Kyle seems to have seen thru alot of it....

 

[Schroederhc]

My gen 1 large pack has been very inconsistent and I’m not sure I understand why. When I took my car to Vegas this summer, it was 120 degrees outside and my car charged like a champ (215kw peak rate, derated to 190kw right before 50% then gradual derating after that). I was extremely impressed. Lately, however, it is 65 degrees outside and the car will not charge above 175kw (battery temp 76 degrees at start of charge). It maintains 175kw until 50% but not seeing anything above. I just don’t understand this change in charging behavior.

Are you using the same adapter or an adapter at all. I had a defective adapter that impacted the speed. Took me a minute to figure it out.

 

[Musicjohn]

Current at cell level remains the same and that's where the issue is.

Agree, that's why I said there were other complicating factors. It does help with many of the other components, like the power electronics, cables, etc. I was just trying to help people with logic.

 

[Budman]

I had an Audi e-tron 400V. It was a monster at quick charging due to its superior battery cooking system. It could even do an average of 75kw at 80-100% SoC. All told that could cut 15 minutes from worst case charging time. So 800V would be better, but 400V improvements can also be made.

That said I haven't seen any real battery degradation from my Rivians, so that's nice. Tesla was terrible in this respect. The EPA should force them to quote range at 25,000 or 50,000 miles.

Battery degradation has not been discussed enough in this thread. Kyle is focused on Speed Speed Speed. Battery health does not factor into his assessment.

There are design trade offs we just don’t have visibility to.

 

[Robin]

I haven’t switched…yet…but I have found that many of conclusions Kyle has reached do not align with my experiences with the Gen2 vehicles that I drove. The quality is significantly improved if you ask me. I even recall Colton (Out Of Spec Detail) saying the same. But they said the doors sound tinny.

The things Kyle said about max pack initially were valid and I think a lot of folks were disappointed there wasn’t as much extra energy as they wanted and Rivian was still up charging significantly for it. Now though the options are better positioned.

maybe it’s the press units that are a problem. The vehicle I test are not press/media units. The ones I review are vehicles customers drive. I also haven’t heard anyone complaining about max pack charging being such a major problem. If it was that bad folks would be shouting from the rooftops I would think.

the only issue I came across was wind noise on one of the units. I isolated it to a pinched window seal on the passenger window and let Rivian know to fix it ASAP. Otherwise great vehicles.

Yes HVAC is loud outside the vehicle but it’s more isolated inside. The noise seems like the condenser cooling fan to me. Silent inside and out is not really reasonable. Inside is important. Outside well, pound mufflers and amped up subs drown out the other fan noises.

The YT algorithm is a strange thing. I can’t stand how they reward clickbait and sky is falling thumbnails/titles…but this is where we are.

YouTube rewards negativity (not saying Kyle is negative) and I personally can’t stand it. Be honest and try to find the positive …those are the things I try to do in my content. Otherwise what are you? I will not sell my soul for views.

rant over ?

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[jpmc86]

To me the only legit reason to call them G2 is the electronic platform. But even that really isn't consumer facing and it is yet to be seen what that will really bring to the table if much.

The rest is basically trim stuff and packaging revisions.

But hey....if Rivian can convince a bunch of people to "upgrade"....why not? As someone who has spent a career in sales...the smoke and mirrors success they are getting is impressive.

But....Kyle seems to have seen thru alot of it....

Exactly! Agreed, I think the VW/Rivian JV was the main reason for the underpinnings, not necessarily for bringing cost down. The JV is how you bring that cost down. Gen2 was just alignment.

 

[Robin]

While watching the video I played a drinking game. And you can, too!

Just grab your favorite holiday spirit and take a shot each time Kyle says: “I’m going to sit down and talk with the Rivian Engineers about this…”

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[RivianPVE]

Are you using the same adapter or an adapter at all. I had a defective adapter that impacted the speed. Took me a minute to figure it out.

No adapters unfortunately. It’s been a mix of electrify America and EV GO.

 

[txoutdoorsman]

Kyle is a knowledgeable guy. He is also a Rivian owner. I don’t agree with a lot of the things he says but we are all free to have our own opinions.

The video did sort of go off the rails as he took the opportunity to complain about various different things on the vehicle. I didn’t watch the whole thing…just skipped around to pertinent parts.

In the end I think we all know that Rivian is not the fastest charging EV around. For that it would need to support 800v.

Lastly, Kyle has been critical of the max pack since its release. While I don’t agree with a lot of what he said at least he is sharing his opinion openly and honestly.

Agreed. As a Gen 1 R1T owner, I don’t do road trips, as it’s just a daily commuter for me. That said, all EVs should aspire to be as convenient to “refuel” as quickly as ICE. We’ll get there eventually. I was quite surprised at the tone and repetition of dislikes and complaints - although absolutely valid. I lost count of how many times he complained and lambasted elements of charging, thermals and sound system. Again, valid points - but I believe this was more a visceral response than I’m used to seeing from him

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