Article: Charging The Electric Rivian R1S Was More Expensive Than Filling Up Some Notorious Gas Guzzlers

[mkg3]

Or one can drive an ICE motorcycle and pay a lot less for energy. The point should not be how efficient or how inefficient a vehicle is. Rather, figure out the cost of energy put into an EV at fast chargers vs. the cost of energy put into an ICE car at gas stations. It is not even close. ICE comes out on top.

Maybe where you live.

In CA, average price of gallon of gas along the major interstate corridor is $4.75~$5.15/gal.

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[kurtlikevonnegut]

I do the Asheville NC to San Antonio drive (I85-I65-I10 and back) at least a couple of times every year and with some judicious planning, it can be done at about 55-60% the ICE cost. Tip 1: always overnight at a hotel with free charging. Tip 2: some Tesla SC's are cheaper than others (e.g. Newnan GA and Commerce GA is 0.36 base rate and even less if you buy the $12.99/mo Tesla membership). Tip 3: there are a couple of Rivian RAN's along the way with cheaper rates. Also, don't pass up the Buc-ee's stop in Luling TX. Point is this: some judicious planning can dramatically lower your on-the-road charging costs.

I definitely could have reduced cost with a few changes and maybe reached cost parity with gas but I thought it was a good test case for a long trip through areas where electricity is relatively cheap. Sadly there is a significant dearth of hotels with chargers along that route, particularly in the areas where I wanted to stop.

I did hit the Buccees on both sides of Houston as well as RAN in Baton Rouge and Slidell. I did I-10 on the way out and I-20 on the way back. That stretch of I-20 between Tuscaloosa and Vicksburg was by far the worst. Tesla needs to upgrade the SC in Meridian to be NACS compatible with non-Teslas.

 

[bigsky]

Maybe where you live.

In CA, average price of gallon of gas along the major interstate corridor is $4.75~$5.15/gal.

I'll tell you what. Regardless of where you may live, take the absolute highest price of gasoline in America, likely on the AK Dalton highway @$7.50 per gallon. Energy equivalent, that translates to a cost of $0.22/kWh.

Please, please, I beg you to find a place in America, any place at all along interstates where the cost of fast charging is $0.22/kWh or even less. Report back. Hint: good luck.

 

[NC-Rivian]

I definitely could have reduced cost with a few changes and maybe reached cost parity with gas but I thought it was a good test case for a long trip through areas where electricity is relatively cheap. Sadly there is a significant dearth of hotels with chargers along that route, particularly in the areas where I wanted to stop.

I did hit the Buccees on both sides of Houston as well as RAN in Baton Rouge and Slidell. I did I-10 on the way out and I-20 on the way back. That stretch of I-20 between Tuscaloosa and Vicksburg was by far the worst. Tesla needs to upgrade the SC in Meridian to be NACS compatible with non-Teslas.

Yep, I20 and I40 through there is a charging desert. (There are a few Tesla SC's scattered but they're mostly v2 and not useable for us.) FYI, the I20 route is about 50 miles farther than using I65 and I65 has several useable SC's. The Crowne Plaza in Baton Rouge is about a full day's drive west and it has numerous chargers and the Comfort Inn Covington LA is a stop for me Eastbound.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Yep, I20 and I40 through there is a charging desert. (There are a few Tesla SC's scattered but they're mostly v2 and not useable for us.) FYI, the I20 route is about 50 miles farther than using I65 and I65 has several useable SC's.

I mostly wanted to try both routes for future reference, and I wanted to avoid Baton Rouge because it was an absolute shit show going East (I hit it at rush hour in the rain). I did discover my favorite RAN so far though, in NE Texas. It's right behind the smokers of a BBQ truck stop, and it smelled incredible.

 

[NC-Rivian]

Indeed. Could not agree more with you. Unrelated to the issue at hand, though, the free dime, that is.

The way I look at it is this: I specifically choose hotels with free charging and choose to spend my money there so the charge I get is probably included in the room rate. Like the "free" breakfast.

 

[wolfsbane]

I agree with those that say the guy has some valid points. He does. But the guy in the article had to add two Uber trips and vegas parking garage fee to his public charging fee in order to make the argument that 2009 Hummer H2 would have been cheaper to drive there. Dude could have easily saved the garage and uber fees and lost his argument if he had done some planning.

 

[madhat]

This is why the figure of mi/kwh is a better way to estimate mileage than the dumb MPGe which assumes ridiculously low electric rates that only exist in the middle of no where. EV charging costs on the west coast are much higher and charging at home is a necessity. The amount you save by charging at home (even with CA electricity prices I estimate I am getting the equivalent of 50mpg) more than offsets roadtrip costs.

What? My understanding is mpge is simply comparing the energy output of a gallon of gasoline to kWh, which is assumed 33.7kWh per gallon gas (winter/summer blends are just below/above this number). That’s because 1gal gas is 120MBtu energy. 1kW = 3.412MBh, or about 35kW equals 120MBth/1gal gas.

Mpge makes sense to me since we know electric motors are a good 3x more efficient than gasoline engines…2kWh = ~67mpge / 3 = ~22.3mpg. 2024 F-150 5L rated 17/25, so I could see myself getting 22mpg driving the way I drive my rivian (avg 2.23mi/kWh).

 

[LR4toR1S]

Read the Article. It was totally fair. He should probably state that any significant road trip does increase cost of ownership in ICE (oil changes). The ICE cars he listed of which I have owned 2 absolutely do not get the range listed for highway they get more around the 15-18 mpg mark.


I actually appreciate the fact he drove 80. Just to show the trade offs adopting a BEV require to access range (reduced speed). People 100% need to know these things. Because after driving ICE for many years moving over to BEV requires some process changes in how a person drives. IF you drive one like an ICE car it's going to feel like you have been hoodwinked in a few categories.

 

[SANZC02]

I read through this entire thread and only 1 question actually came to mind.

Who in the world would buy a 7k pound vehicle capable of a 3 second zero to 60 and 7 second zero to 100 thinking it would be an efficient (read cheap) road tripper.

If cost was the real goal here spending 90k on a Rivian is certainly not a good starting point.

Just for a real world scenario, I spent $1225 charging my R1S on a 7400 mile road trip. If I did the same trip in my old Jeep GC that I would get 20 mpg on road trips it would be an average fuel cost of 3.31 a gallon. I was not doing 80 the entire time but was doing the speed limit except when the limits were above 75, then I was doing 78, the time saved going faster than that just was not worth the efficiency drop in my mind.

Now if cost was my driving factor, I would have saved the $1225 and drove my Model S that has free Supercharging. I certainly did not need the R1S on that trip but it was fun to drive. ?

 

[Yossarian]

. . . As I have said many times, the cost of electricity at fast chargers is in my view one of the biggest scams perpetrated on mankind, full stop.

I'm not sure "scam" is the right word to describe the cost at many DCFC's since the charging networks are not perpatrating a fraud, but rather simply (pun intended) overcharging you. I submit that what they are doing is perhaps better described as greedy, rapacious, avaricous, predatory, voracious, marauding, extortionate . . .

 

[TomServo2112]

He's not wrong. I just did a 2400 mile trip from San Antonio to Greenville,SC and public fast charging (mostly on Tesla and RAN) cost more than it would have to drive our Honda Odyssey that gets about 25 mpg. I made a spreadsheet to track costs and charging speed and it was a little shocking how expensive it is.

For reference, I paid an average of $.42/kwh. Electricity on average is $.12/kwh across the US, so charging providers are charging roughly 350% to charge your EV. Gas is usually sold at cost or sometimes even below cost. My takeaway is that scarcity is driving costs, and until there is more charging available the public charging providers will continue to scalp the early adopters.

But isn't that, too, comparing apples to oranges?

When I plot out a road trip via gas or EV, I'm not concerned with national averages, I'm concerned with averages on *that* trip. The same with electricity prices. If the average per kwh is $0.35 in my area, it doesn't matter that it's $0.12 nationally. Back to gas, do you get off the freeway and drive 4 miles inland so you can get cheaper gas prices or do you pay the upcharge for freeway convenience? Those convenience prices are certainly outliers far and above any national average, but are also seen very regularly on road trips. If I use California to Utah as an example, the DCFC pricing might come within the ballpark of what I'd pay for gas in day-to-day driving around my town, but not the gas prices I'd see on that very same road trip.

That said, EV road tripping still absolutely needs more careful planning than gas, but it wasn't that long ago that I drove across country with my wife using a TripTik and needed to just as carefully plan gas stops. It's all progressing and I definitely appreciate the on-the-whole $$ savings I'm getting from driving an EV versus driving gas, even if the car gets 27 or more mpg.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

But isn't that, too, comparing apples to oranges?

When I plot out a road trip via gas or EV, I'm not concerned with national averages, I'm concerned with averages on *that* trip. The same with electricity prices. If the average per kwh is $0.35 in my area, it doesn't matter that it's $0.12 nationally. Back to gas, do you get off the freeway and drive 4 miles inland so you can get cheaper gas prices or do you pay the upcharge for freeway convenience? Those convenience prices are certainly outliers far and above any national average, but are also seen very regularly on road trips. If I use California to Utah as an example, the DCFC pricing might come within the ballpark of what I'd pay for gas in day-to-day driving around my town, but not the gas prices I'd see on that very same road trip.

That said, EV road tripping still absolutely needs more careful planning than gas, but it wasn't that long ago that I drove across country with my wife using a TripTik and needed to just as carefully plan gas stops. It's all progressing and I definitely appreciate the on-the-whole $$ savings I'm getting from driving an EV versus driving gas, even if the car gets 27 or more mpg.

Well in SC I was paying $.42 per kwh to fast charge and I know that in the area I was charging that $.12/kwh is within $.01 or $.02 of the cost depending on provider. Power in that area is relatively low cost due to the wonders of atom splitting.

 

[shap]

I just drove 1200 miles in super 10 to 40 degree weather. Trip was super smooth and easy. Charging was fast and easy. Trip normal takes 2 days, I took 3 leisurely days. Could not have been easier.

Charge on the road .30 a kw. Charge at home .04 a kw. I was happy to pay on the road to charge at 500 mph.

planning trip was super easy. I have heard people complain about road trips. I found it extremely enjoyable.

0.04c at home is great - compared to the average 13c nationwide. Or to CA 0.50c with PG&E. Everyone has a different rate. EV makes sense in some cases, and no sense in others. And this is fine. I went to AR from TX and took my X5 45e. 85mph averaged 26 MPG. It would be a bit more expensive to do it with Rivian, but I would lose 4 hours. For a short trip makes no sense. Each car type has its own cons and pros.

 

[CrazyOne]

EVs generally don't save money for average driver driving 10k miles per year. Its not a surprise to me, but it is for some. Some states, including WA charge EV fees of about $250. So there is that, in addition to the higher purchase price.

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