Article: Charging The Electric Rivian R1S Was More Expensive Than Filling Up Some Notorious Gas Guzzlers

[Donald Stanfield]

Electric vehicles restrict your freedom compared to gas cars. That is truth. Unfortunately gas is killing the planet, so sacrifices must be made. Rivian lies about EPA range by including the city mileage number in the blended result, which doesn’t help. Legally, they can do it. Ethically, it is confusing. The range number should be all highest at 70 MPH, in slightly cold weather.

JFC, there's another mole hill you're attempting to shape into a mountain with your "Rivian lies about EPA range" when almost EVERY manufacturer uses a blend of city and highway driving to list a range figure. Do you stretch before you log on to this forum? I'd hate for you to pull something with all the reaching you do in here.

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[Doug]

Electric vehicles restrict your freedom compared to gas cars. That is truth. Unfortunately gas is killing the planet, so sacrifices must be made. Rivian lies about EPA range by including the city mileage number in the blended result, which doesn’t help. Legally, they can do it. Ethically, it is confusing. The range number should be all highest at 70 MPH, in slightly cold weather.

This is not the standard of how EPA range is figured. I am no expert but if you have the same expectations of an EV as an ICE car then they are similar in range difference in going 70 to 80 on an interstate versus the EPA standard. I have a Toyota Highlander hybrid that is marketed as having a range of almost 600 miles on a tank, but in real world driving conditions I refill after less than 400 miles. I do not get upset at Toyota for "lack of range" when I drive in less than perfect conditions. People see the range on an EV and think no matter what that is the miles they should get.

 

[Riviaenz]

As soon as I read the following two lines, I could see where this was going. He states the obvious that public charging is expensive, duh, and then sets the stage by admitting he has range anxiety and drives a range extended I3. Can we do any worse comparing organic apples to fake plastic oranges?

"In fact, based on my experiences with fast charging prices, and infrastructure issues here in California, I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy an EV unless they can charge at home or at work (or unless they’re willing to deal with some inconvenience/understand the costs)."

"I’ve got to start this article by saying I love electric cars, which is why I daily-drive one (with a range-extender)."

"Sure, that’s at 80 MPH much of the time, but come on. You could get 19 MPG highway doing 80 MPH some of the way with lots of gas guzzlers out there."

And then he posts the EPA mileage ratings which show 18 mpg - DumbAss, EPA rating is not at 80 miles per hour. WTAF???

My thought exactly! He goes and finds 18-22mpg Highway SUV and doesn’t hold them to the same expectations that they’ll perform WORST than the estimated EPA at 80mph like the Rivian. Push those larger bricks at 80 and he’d be lucky to see 14mpg. Being generous at 14mpg he’s going to spend at least $80 on Dino juice. For compare he should try the same with his EREV i3, I bet he can’t get 80mph out of it and definitely not when its 2cyl is running.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

I have had my R1T for about 3 weeks now. I have "filled it up" 6 times since we took ownership. I have been tracking the energy consumption and estimated cost to recharge, and currently by my calculations, it has averaged out to $.12 per mile to drive the vehicle.

My prior ICE vehicle was $.15 per mile to drive.

How I got to these numbers:

Cost per kWh = ((Distance Recovered after Charge / kW used to recharge)/ Time to recharge) * 0.17741

That .17741 number is the price per kW that RI Electric charged in the depths of last winter. I am fortunate that we invested in a large solar architecture for our home, so the recharges have been using my energy Net Credits and home battery storage, and not pulling directly from the grid. I try and plug the R1T in at home when the sun is doing it's best work overhead.

kW Cost Per Mile = (Distance Recovered after Charge * Cost per kWh) / The physical odometer mileage driven during that running time.

That give me the kW Cost Per Mile to operate the vehicle.

I am not sitting here whining; the R1T-Large is an ELECTRIC vehicle. I live in Rhode Island. It's WINTER. Our nights are in the low 20's, no higher than low 30's by day. Aside from the vehicle sitting in an UNHEATED GARAGE, when out and about, seat heaters are on and the cabin is kept at a very comfortable 66 degrees. Electric heat is not cheap, whether you use it for the home or in an EV.

When we had a week of moderate weather right after delivery, that Cost Per Mile number was $.08

So those are my numbers, that is my math. Excel Spreadsheets are my friend. The weather is the outlier.

Thoughts?

Rade

When you add in consumables like tires, it sadly tips the scales a bit back towards ICE. R1s eat tires and they aren’t cheap. You’re probably looking at $1600 every 20k miles in an R1T vs 50k on a ICE midsize truck.

 

[Rade]

Two days, out and about running errands in the R1T. Plugged it into the home charger before turning in last night. Set my charging rate to 85% and turned the Amps from 48 down to 18 through the dashboard screen. Unplugged this morning and grabbed the statistics from the recharge:

Physical miles driven: 84
Battery miles recovered: 111
Total kWh: 35
Time to recharge: 10hrs. (noted when first plugged in last night)

By my logic: (111 /

When you add in consumables like tires, it sadly tips the scales a bit back towards ICE. R1s eat tires and they aren’t cheap. You’re probably looking at $1600 every 20k miles in an R1T vs 50k on a ICE midsize truck.

Understood. I will say that, though the available torque is AWESOME, I also tend to drive... rather conservatively. No chirping of tires. I don't know if the regen braking may play into tire wear.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

Two days, out and about running errands in the R1T. Plugged it into the home charger before turning in last night. Set my charging rate to 85% and turned the Amps from 48 down to 18 through the dashboard screen. Unplugged this morning and grabbed the statistics from the recharge:

Physical miles driven: 84
Battery miles recovered: 111
Total kWh: 35
Time to recharge: 10hrs. (noted when first plugged in last night)

By my logic: (111 /


Understood. I will say that, though the available torque is AWESOME, I also tend to drive... rather conservatively. No chirping of tires. I don't know if the regen braking may play into tire wear.

Between the >7k vehicle weight and regen, I’m not sure how much it matters how you drive. Make sure you don’t skip tire rotations or use conserve off the highway. I think some people have managed to get 30k out of their first set of tires but I’ve seen some needing replacement at 15k too. Just something to keep in mind. At least you don’t need to worry about brake pads and oil changes.

 

[ukyank]

It’s very simple

EVs are wonderful commuter cars if you have a charger at home; nothing comes close.

For long road trips, they are not a great option apart from those with lots of time & patience on their hands.

 

[SANZC02]

When you add in consumables like tires, it sadly tips the scales a bit back towards ICE. R1s eat tires and they aren’t cheap. You’re probably looking at $1600 every 20k miles in an R1T vs 50k on a ICE midsize truck.

I agree tires are an extra expense with EVs but not as bad as your example in my experience. We have a Tesla Model S that I have replaced tires pretty consistently between 30 and 35k miles, my wife was driving an RX350 prior and we were replacing tires between 40-45k miles.

My Rivian replaced a Jeep GC, I’m getting close to 30k miles now on the R1s and will probably need to replace the tires around 30-32k, my Jeep was pretty consistently between between 40-45k miles between sets.

So my experience in last 8+ years with EVs I get about 75% of the miles I was getting with ICE vehicles. With the Tesla I was replacing with tires that had a tread life warrenty which prorated both sets I purchased and replaced so cost was not that different between that and the ICE. Not sure yet what I will replace the original set with yet on my R1S.

 

[SANZC02]

It’s very simple

EVs are wonderful commuter cars if you have a charger at home; nothing comes close.

For long road trips, they are not a great option apart from those with lots of time & patience on their hands.

This is true, no issues taking long road trips in my EVs now that I’m retired.

If I’m going to be honest though, before retiring any trips that would make a real difference between ICE and EV, which I put at around 500 miles, we would fly.

 

[rhumbliner]

I don't think EVs are currently for the masses, they have plenty of drawbacks, biggest being the erratic charging pricing, performance and reliability are a huge issue for a lot of people.

While I agree EV’s may not be for the masses, I disagree with your reasons.
1) gasoline prices are just as variable;
2) performance is far better than an ICE;
3) reliability is sooo much better in an EV.

IMHO, the biggest obstacles are
1) charging, since not every one owns a home;
2) service, dealerships are not up to speed yet and EV companies like Rivian are struggling with service;
3) wrapping one’s mind around the change of routine from filling at a gasoline station vs charging overnight at home.

 

[Doug]

Between the >7k vehicle weight and regen, I’m not sure how much it matters how you drive. Make sure you don’t skip tire rotations or use conserve off the highway. I think some people have managed to get 30k out of their first set of tires but I’ve seen some needing replacement at 15k too. Just something to keep in mind. At least you don’t need to worry about brake pads and oil changes.

I got 41,000 on my first set of 21's

 

[White Shadow]

ICE vehicles not all that long ago couldn't go more than a couple hundred miles because they got 8 to 10 mpg. I remember a lot more gas stations and more frequent stops for fuel. This only changed as engine technology got a lot better. It only took 100 years. Given modern batteries and all, I think it is pretty amazing how far EVs have come in so little time.

Say what? My parents had two V8 vehicles when I was a kid. One was the family car and the other was a 3/4 ton truck. Both got much more than 8 to 10 mpg and both had fuel tanks with 25+ gallon capacity. We'd do road trips upstate to relatives 400 miles away without stopping for gas. This was in the 1970s.

 

[technerd]

While I agree EV’s may not be for the masses, I disagree with your reasons.
1) gasoline prices are just as variable;
2) performance is far better than an ICE;
3) reliability is sooo much better in an EV.

IMHO, the biggest obstacles are
1) charging, since not every one owns a home;
2) service, dealerships are not up to speed yet and EV companies like Rivian are struggling with service;
3) wrapping one’s mind around the change of routine from filling at a gasoline station vs charging overnight at home.

Yea, I agree, I meant all of those things about charging, the price variability, reliability and performance of public charging. We're a lot closer with access to Tesla's network, but there are still large dead spots in chargers in the country, let alone the issues with EA and the other non Rivian/Tesla chargers.

 

[KidThunder]

we found a 180 KW charger that is free on our way to Minneapolis. Article like this do not help ignorant people understand EV's. All they hear is that it does not save money so they are out.

I do not think this is a typical experience, I've been driving EVs for 10 years and I've never run into a free 180kw charger. The only free ones I've seen have been the 6kw kind that would take overnight to charge up the Rivian.

So I actually think this is an important subject the person has raised. Fast charging rates have sky rocketed to the point that in some cases makes them less affordable than ICE. Combined with registration fees that are bordering on punitive, it creates a disincentive in the market for people to transition to EVs.

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