Why can't they retrofit existing R1's with NACS?

[Jared2]

It seems like it shouldn't be that hard to replace the existing CSS ports with NACS ones (for a nominal cost of course).

I'd pay $500+ for the convenience of that. The vehicles already handshake to Tesla SCs... Would it be much more hardware to swap out the port?

Maybe it's a dumb question, but it would help to future-proof our $100k+ vehicles...

(And please add better lighting in the port when you do it)

-Jared

R1S Tri

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[VSG]

It seems like it shouldn't be that hard to replace the existing CSS ports with NACS ones (for a nominal cost of course).

LOL.
And what expertise do you have that would lead you to believe that?

 

[jrmbadger]

While I share your sentiment and may be willing to pay to have it retrofitted (depending on cost), I don't think its as simple as swapping out a charge port form factor.

As I understand it:

The NACS connector uses the same two pins for AC level 2 charging as it does for DC fast charging, whereas CCS1 uses different pins. On the CCS1, the top connector is a J1337 connector which handles signalling and AC charging and the bottom two is the DC fast charging pins. That's why you need different adapters to use NACS to charge L2 than you need for DC fast charging.

In order to do the adaption, as I understand it (but I'm no expert), you would need to have some switching mechanism to send the power to the right cables depending on whether you have AC or DC going through the pins. This likely increases the complexity and cost beyond what is likely worth it over just using adapters.

 

[cwardak]

While I share your sentiment and may be willing to pay to have it retrofitted (depending on cost), I don't think its as simple as swapping out a charge port form factor.

As I understand it:

The NACS connector uses the same two pins for AC level 2 charging as it does for DC fast charging, whereas CCS1 uses different pins. On the CCS1, the top connector is a J1337 connector which handles signalling and AC charging and the bottom two is the DC fast charging pins. That's why you need different adapters to use NACS to charge L2 than you need for DC fast charging.

In order to do the adaption, as I understand it (but I'm no expert), you would need to have some switching mechanism to send the power to the right cables depending on whether you have AC or DC going through the pins. This likely increases the complexity and cost beyond what is likely worth it over just using adapters.

Yes. It requires a different voltage regulator and would then also require and update to the software to be able to manage the charging.

 

[ndmiller]

Don't want it, wouldn't pay for it. I'm accepting that EV's will use adapters for the long haul and in my area, CCS chargers are more abundant, available and cheaper than Tesla infrastructure. I also have a Y and use an J1772->NACS adapter at home for L2.

 

[mpshizzle]

Yes. It requires a different voltage regulator and would then also require and update to the software to be able to manage the charging.

This. Theoretically possible. My guess is you'd end up replacing the port as well as the on board AC charger, and possibly some cabling/switch gear to handle the pin switching. I guarantee the parts are somewhat modular (they designed gen 2 with changing to NACS in mind from launch). I think the number of parts you'd have to swap is relatively low. That said , who knows how much you'd have to dissasemble to get to those few parts.


For me, I'll be VERY intersted in doing this a few years down the road. As of right now I use more J 1772 infrastructure than NACS. As more things switch over, it would make more sense for me

 

[Mathme]

I agree with @ndmiller ... we will need to carry adapters for quite the long-term future so having one port or the other on the vehicle side really doesn't matter. Even though I got a complimentary NACS DCFC adapter, I've never used it and don't intend to frequent Tesla Superchargers. That being said, I carry said adapter and a J1772 adapter with me 'in case' they will be needed at some point.

I have several friends who drive Tesla's and they all carry the appropriate fast and slow chargers with them as well - just in case.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Why is this so important? Adapters are not hard to use, too heavy to handle or too large store in vehicle. Irrational obsession.

Having a NACS charging port afford you no advantages. You still can't charging at any Supercharger, only select ones that Tesla has decided to open to other brands. And it gives you no advantage in charging curve. Charging curve is product of software & engineering of the electrical architecture and high voltage pack. The smaller and lighter plug is more ergonomic. That's about all the advantage there is and ever will be.

Lastly, there is an upgrade path. Sell or trade your J1772/CCS1 ported R1 and upgrade to a MY26.

 

[CharonPDX]

Why couldn't they?

Because they want people to buy new vehicles.

 

[Zoidz]

While I share your sentiment and may be willing to pay to have it retrofitted (depending on cost), I don't think its as simple as swapping out a charge port form factor.

As I understand it:

The NACS connector uses the same two pins for AC level 2 charging as it does for DC fast charging, whereas CCS1 uses different pins. On the CCS1, the top connector is a J1337 connector which handles signalling and AC charging and the bottom two is the DC fast charging pins. That's why you need different adapters to use NACS to charge L2 than you need for DC fast charging.

In order to do the adaption, as I understand it (but I'm no expert), you would need to have some switching mechanism to send the power to the right cables depending on whether you have AC or DC going through the pins. This likely increases the complexity and cost beyond what is likely worth it over just using adapters.

This is correct. It's not just retrofitting the receptable on the vehicle.

I would pay exactly $0 for the conversion. It really makes no sense for Rivian to offer such a conversion. It would have to cost a minimum of several thousand dollars, more if the inverter hardware needed to be changed. IMO relatively few would pay for it and therefore RIvian would never recover the development, tooling, training and inventory costs to offer such a retrofit.

 

[lefkonj]

If they offered it would be more like $2,000 if I had to guess.

First is the labor. They would have to take apart the front panel of the vehicle and the charge control unit to replace the port itself. That would take hours and hours
Second the parts. The port itself, the wiring, the charge control unit etc etc.

It would be like swapping AC or DC power on your refrigerator, way more work than it seems.

Personally I don't care. There are plenty of CCS chargers, so if I am NACS I need an adapter. There are plenty of NACS ports for which I require an adapter. Get used to it, going to be adapter fun for a while.

 

[Polar]

The vehicles already handshake to Tesla SCs...

This here specifically - no. Tesla added the CCS protocol to most V3 and up pedestals allowing third party vehicles to use them. This is also why we (even NACS equipped trucks) cannot charge at early superchargers as those pedestals don’t negotiate via CCS.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

The CCS1 adapter weighs less than 2.5 lbs.

But when people who are afraid of adapters see it, they think this:

 

[ElGuano]

I could see a market for a NACS conversion, but mainly I think the folks who will benefit the most are those who also have a Tesla at home, and one/shared L2 charger. Needing to use a j1772 adapter at home kinda sucks, and it happens frequently enough (every day) where a pay-for-convenience swap makes sense.

For L3 charging, you're always going to have to bring an adapter with you, unless you are OK eliminating a good proportion of your DCFC options. Because of that, I've come around to not really caring what is on the truck itself, you'll always end up somewhere you might need an adapter.

I also don't see it costing $500. All said and done, probably well north of $1000 and a minuscule take rate that doesn't make it worth offering.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I could see a market for a NACS conversion, but mainly I think the folks who will benefit the most are those who also have a Tesla at home, and one/shared L2 charger. Needing to use a j1772 adapter at home kinda sucks

Why? How? A TeslaTap Mini doesn't even weigh 1 pound. If you only have one vehicle you just leave the adapter on the charging cord. Even if you have two vehicles and one is a Tesla, plugging and unplugging the adapter is as simple as... plugging and unplugging? A physical task you perform at the charging port anyway? If you are able-bodied, why is this being perceived as difficult?

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